Alternate Physics?

[Kinata]

There is evidence that fangames behave differently on certain computers, in particular those of a few Asian players. For those that haven't talked to me about this before, what I'm referring to is a phenomenon of certain Asian players doing challenges that seem to be physically impossible for Westerners. The most famous example of this is multiple Japanese and Korean players purporting to beat "the Leehe Trap jump" (a triple diamond raised one tile), which is impossible on Western computers (Shadow says he did it once, but since he hasn't been able to reproduce this or get in on video, I don't know what to make of that).

The clearest evidence is this video showing Qoo beating a jump in Brute of a Man that has been thoroughly tested and shown to be impossible, at least on our computers:
His double jump seems to defy the physics that the Kid follows in Western computers. Also, him getting this far in the game would have required him to beat another impossible jump earlier in the level. Furthermore, Kamilia claims that two players have beaten the entirety of the game (and I highly doubt he was referring to the mod).

I really want us to find out more about this discrepancy in physics, but it's difficult due to the language barrier. I would really appreciate it if anyone here who has contact with a good part of the Japanese or especially Korean community to help me get information on this. I would like to have the players who are able to pull of these impossible tasks to perform certain tests for me that would allow me to figure out exactly what's going on. Also, we shouldn't discount the possibility that there are Western computers with these alternate physics. If anyone wants to test the jump in the video above, just put into Geezer's program and see if it's beatable on your computer. It's a rather simple jump, so if it is possible on your computer, it shouldn't be too hard to clear.

Ideally, we should be able to modify the Yuuutu engine so that it behaves under the rules of these other physics even on Western computers, so that challenges like Brute can be available to us (without having to artificially mod it to be beatable under our physics).

[Plynq]

Lets all buy korean Windows xp computers yay

EDIT- also i dont think we should change the engine physics -

[HAEGOE]

Lets all buy korean Windows xp computers yay

EDIT- also i dont think we should change the engine physics -

Microsoft stopped support on XP
so it's either getting through impossible segment or getting your security wrecked

[ethinthenougathorn]

 Alternate Physics?  obviously, yes!

[Kinata]

Lets all buy korean Windows xp computers yay

EDIT- also i dont think we should change the engine physics -

So is it known that it's Windows XP that causes this? That would explain why TAS'ers often encounter this. Not because of the TAS'ing itself, but because Hourglass only runs on Windows XP.

In any case, when a game is designed to be played with the other physics, wouldn't it be preferable to play it with its original physics? Obviously, it would be annoying to readjust ourselves to the other physics, so I'd only do it if necessary, like in the case of Brute of a Man. It seems that a mod that gives the game its intended physics back is preferable to a mod that tries to adapt it for our physics.

[lemonxreaper]

I don't think this is the case at all. or at-least anymore. if it was then it makes no sense really why we haven't encountered any impossible jumps in newer games that have been confirmed beaten.
I have said this before but I feel its likely that qoo used tool while playing these parts as his description said TAS.
There is no solid evidence to back up the alternate physics claim and the jumps that have been said to be impossible for us are also impossible for other communities, otherwise the triple diamond in danger 10 makers probably wouldn't have been squished.

[Kinata]

I don't think this is the case at all. or at-least anymore. if it was then it makes no sense really why we haven't encountered any impossible jumps in newer games that have been confirmed beaten.
I have said this before but I feel its likely that qoo used tool while playing these parts as his description said TAS.
There is no solid evidence to back up the alternate physics claim and the jumps that have been said to be impossible for us are also impossible for other communities, otherwise the triple diamond in danger 10 makers probably wouldn't have been squished.

I still don't understand how it would make sense that qoo was livestreaming a TAS. Unless it was a pre-recorded TAS that he was showing off on stream, but then why was he constantly dying? Not to mention that it's still not clear why Hourglass causes these subtle changes in physics (though of course, we don't have clear reason why the physics would change in any circumstance).

The fact that this problem doesn't seem to come up anymore would also suggest that the cause might be older computers (OS Windows XP, which of course is also the OS of Hourglass users). Leehe claims to have beaten his jump, but no longer uses it. Perhaps he is aware that people with newer computers can't beat it?

In any case, do you believe Kamilia's claim that Brute of a Man has been beaten by two people? It would be helpful to at least talk to those two guys (or qoo), though I have never had any success in contacting Asians (qoo, the creator of Brute, and Kamilia have ignored my messages in the past). Is there someone in the community who is relatively easy to get into contact with?

[lemonxreaper]

I still don't understand how it would make sense that qoo was livestreaming a TAS. Unless it was a pre-recorded TAS that he was showing off on stream, but then why was he constantly dying? Not to mention that it's still not clear why Hourglass causes these subtle changes in physics (though of course, we don't have clear reason why the physics would change in any circumstance).

The fact that this problem doesn't seem to come up anymore would also suggest that the cause might be older computers (OS Windows XP, which of course is also the OS of Hourglass users). Leehe claims to have beaten his jump, but no longer uses it. Perhaps he is aware that people with newer computers can't beat it?

In any case, do you believe Kamilia's claim that Brute of a Man has been beaten by two people? It would be helpful to at least talk to those two guys (or qoo), though I have never had any success in contacting Asians (qoo, the creator of Brute, and Kamilia have ignored my messages in the past). Is there someone in the community who is relatively easy to get into contact with?
[/quote]

I think they don't find the topic at all interesting on top of the language barrier.

[Kinata]

Well, I wasn't talking to qoo and Kamilia about this, but yeah, language barrier is a problem. In any case, since it seems no one really cares, it's safe to say that anything that seems impossible for us (Brute, Butterfly Nova, SAT, etc.) is fair ground for modding.

[Hectorpaddy]

How sure are you that your tests are actually 100% correct?

[infern0man1]

So one day I downloaded a fangame to a school computer. I manage to do a 1 frame mini-F, and I thought it was just the keyboard. I tried it again on a different computer in school, but couldn't do it. Then I realized that the 1 frame I did the first time was on a computer with XP. The one I couldn't do it on was with 7. There is a difference in physics.

[Hectorpaddy]

So one day I downloaded a fangame to a school computer. I manage to do a 1 frame mini-F, and I thought it was just the keyboard. I tried it again on a different computer in school, but couldn't do it. Then I realized that the 1 frame I did the first time was on a computer with XP. The one I couldn't do it on was with 7. There is a difference in physics.

Why would you try something like that in your school? lol

[AndresSgarrido]

So one day I downloaded a fangame to a school computer. I manage to do a 1 frame mini-F, and I thought it was just the keyboard. I tried it again on a different computer in school, but couldn't do it. Then I realized that the 1 frame I did the first time was on a computer with XP. The one I couldn't do it on was with 7. There is a difference in physics.

Why would you try something like that in your school? lol

Why not?

[infern0man1]

We finish our EOCs and our proctors allow us to do shit on the comps here.

[Kinata]

So one day I downloaded a fangame to a school computer. I manage to do a 1 frame mini-F, and I thought it was just the keyboard. I tried it again on a different computer in school, but couldn't do it. Then I realized that the 1 frame I did the first time was on a computer with XP. The one I couldn't do it on was with 7. There is a difference in physics.

Yes, my conspiracy theory has been validated!

Hector I can show you how I do my tests in stream. My methods are pretty rigorous.

Inferno, I don't know how much access you have to those computers, but would it be possible to do some tests on them? With a little data, I can determine how those computers interpret the game code differently and create an "XP patch" for fangames that are broken in Win7 physics.