The Wannabes auto hosting discussion

[zebbe94]

Auto hosting is an interesting thing that is nice for people that want to use it. I don't mind it being encouraged but I am against forcing it on people to be a part of the team, it should be your own choice if you want to use it. On that note, hosting each other is something The Wannabes has always been good at, both for larger and smaller streamers. In the end it's the "end of stream" hosts that really make an impact, and that is something I think we are already excellent at.

On the topic of removing inactive members from the team. It's not something that I'm against but I guess it could be a bit tricky to say exactly what inactive means. Take Geezer as an example, sometimes it can be months between his streams and other times he streams every single day. I know people that used to stream a lot that now only streams occasionally. Some people only stream a few times a month. Personally I haven't really streamed much lately because studying takes a lot of my time, but I do try to stream occasionally if I got time. And I feel kinda the same as what Patrick said, I don't mind being taken off knowing I could get added back whenever I get back into streaming a bit more again.

I dunno about increasing the requirements. I guess it depends if you want the team to be exclusive to the "best" fangame streamers or if you want it to be more open for people that has a decent stream that mainly stream fangames. Personally I would have the requirements be something like:
-Fangames are the main attraction of your stream.
-You have some experience playing fangames.
-You have some experience with streaming.
-You have a decent quality on your stream (as in don't capture your whole desktop with your tiny fangame in the middle, don't have your computer audio played trough your mic and stupid things like that.)
-You have some experience with the fangame community (You know about essential fangame sites like the wiki, delfruit, the forums etc. You interact with the community in some way/s, for example: Watching and chatting in fangame streams, interact on the forums or in the community discord or maybe you made a fangame or something)

Remove members who no longer meet the requirements? I have a hard time seeing how someone could no longer meet the requirements unless they are drastically changed from what they are now. (Other than inactive people.)

I wouldn't say force english broadcast language on your streams but I would say if you cannot speak english then you can't really interact much with our community. As TJ said, I don't mind dual language streams as long as it's possible to interact with the streamer in english.

The follower alert is something that I don't particularly enjoy but I do think that some streamer can make it work ok-ish. I don't think it should be a requirement to be part of the team though, I think you should be able to run your stream as you want.

edit: I see Den clarified some of the things I mentioned while I was writing this. Also for TJ and others that may be wondering about the auto host thing, look here: https://i.imgur.com/kdl51eB.png

[Denferok]

Fair enough TJ, I guess discouraging the follower alerts is enough to make those who use it rethink. I personally just have a deep hatred for them and I don't like hosting channels with them. And zebbe, those requirements you listed was basically what I was going for, and there are definitely people who don't live up to those as of right now. Because I basically handle applications on my own, I don't even know if you guys notice when new members are added.

About inactive members, I mostly just mean those who are "dead". If you wanna take a month off streaming, that's fine and you shouldn't feel stressed out about streaming. I don't want anyone to feel forced to stream just because they don't want to be removed. Basically as long as you still "exist" in the community then a removal wouldn't be necessary.

[zebbe94]

Fair enough TJ, I guess discouraging the follower alerts is enough to make those who use it rethink. I personally just have a deep hatred for them and I don't like hosting channels with them. And zebbe, those requirements you listed was basically what I was going for, and there are definitely people who don't live up to those as of right now. Because I basically handle applications on my own, I don't even know if you guys notice when new members are added.

About inactive members, I mostly just mean those who are "dead". If you wanna take a month off streaming, that's fine and you shouldn't feel stressed out about streaming. I don't want anyone to feel forced to stream just because they don't want to be removed. Basically as long as you still "exist" in the community then a removal wouldn't be necessary.

Hmm, I guess maybe I don't know about all newly added members. And thanks for clarifying about inactive members.

[ciaran]

Here are my thoughts on things.

Follower alerts in general from what I've seen are quite in your face and can cover up a lot of the stream.
This can get particularly annoying during fangames, especially with audio alerts. Something subtle like a "ping" and small piece of text on stream wouldn't be too bad, however an outright ban on them is fair enough. You'll definitely get noticed by chatting in streams, which brings me to my next point.


I feel like if you're going to add someone to the team, have idk, for arguments sake say 3 current team members who know this new applicant and who can say "Yeah I know this user, they seem cool and would be a good addition to the team" because if you're going to join a team, at least be familiar with a few of the members of said team. It'll make breaking the ice with the rest of the team members a lot easier.


As for stream layouts and experience, you want viewers to come back to your stream so stream scenes have to look nice and non-tacky.
Minimal layouts tend to go down well.


Regarding the point on stream experience, I think you should have a mic at least. Camera is totally optional, I've seen streams both benefit from adding one and removing one, it's up to whatever the streamer is most comfortable with.


Having a re-application form for former members is also a good idea. We all need a break, sometimes more extended than others. Sometimes life gets in the way, sometimes they lose their spark but it can always come back.

[aytoms29]

For the most part I agree with all of these reasons, one of my only problems would be removing follower alerts.

For many small streams follower alerts are something that they use to interact with a stream. Of course there are some really really bad ones that take up a ton of space, but there are also some really nice small follower alerts that take up little space and don't really do anything to the stream. A good follower alert example would be peekingboo's stream (He has one of the best stream layouts I have ever seen, especially for his viewer count). His follower alert pops up in a tiny space unoccupied by any camera, in tiny font and it causes the stream mascot at the bottom of the screen to grow a tiny bit.

It's something that isn't obnoxious and gives the streamer a way to interact with a viewer for a short time even though you usually don't notice it. These follower alerts usually help a stream look a bit better and gain a few more viewers. Of course some people will disagree, but if a follower alert can be small and go unnoticed it shouldn't need a ban.

Another thing I can kinda disagree with is probably having only English for the team, some points have already been made about this which I can agree with.

As long as the streamer can speak English well enough to communicate he shouldn't be banned. This could help people get better at English who come from non-English speaking backgrounds. Of course the stream needs to speak English as the language mainly spoken, but having some other languages can be fun.

Edit: I think the auto-hosting should be trialed by somebody before we start using it.

Thanks!

[Wolsk]

1) Remove inactive members

Keep in mind that this has been tried before and was an ABSOLUTE MESS.  Last time it happened, I got removed after not streaming for 2 weeks and did not receive any message regarding it.  I think this can be done properly and should be done, but more thought and time is going to have to be put into it this time around.

2) Increase the requirements to get in the team

As others have mentioned, this is mostly an exclusivity issue.  Since Den defined it as "isn't brand new to fangames and doesn't have an ugly stream," we now know the kinds of people allowed.  However, I would still recommend discussing new additions to the team more rather than taking care of the applications by yourself.  The "vouching" process that Ciaran described would be good.

3) Remove members who no longer meet the requirements

Again, this will take a lot of thought, discussion, and time.  This kind of stuff isn't easy to do and could be extremely detrimental to the team if not handled properly.  That being said, I agree that it should be done.

4) Require english to be the broadcaster language

No special opinion here.  I agree that more language variety is good, but English should still be the primary one.

5) Require the broadcaster to not have a follower alert

I'm sure some people were eagerly awaiting my response to this as the only person in the team still with a follower alert.  I get that you don't like them, Den, and most people don't, but you really can't tell someone how to run their stream.  You tried this same thing before by saying that you cannot join the team if you look at your viewercount while streaming.  Explaining the negative effects of things like using follower alerts or calling out lurkers or watching your viewercount is enough, and then it's up to the streamer to do what they want with that information.  Doing/having these may work for some streamers even if it doesn't work for everyone.  HOWEVER, I do understand the negatives of using the alert, and at this point mine has way overstayed its welcome as something that was just supposed to be a joke.  This just gives me a reason to finally go back to not having one.  I will remove mine, but do not make it something you're forced to do in order to be on the team.

6) Every member in the team would be required to enable auto hosting feature

This part I'm very much on the fence about.  On one hand, conformity with a change like this could strengthen the bonds in our team, but on the other hand, there are still members who don't want big chats and don't want a ton of recognition (which was made very apparent during FGM if you remember). I'm kind of leaning towards forcing its use because then no one is allowed to distance themself, but I would like to see opinions from the more reclusive members of our team.


And what BBF_ asked about hosting is something I was also wondering about.  It wasn't answered in the blog post, so it'd be great if someone here knows and could shed some light on it:

A question about the auto-hosting: How does it choose what member of the team gets hosted if several are streaming? This could lead to some very unfavorable situations if two or more members happen to stream at the same time frequently, while only one gets all the hosts (if it depends on viewer count, follower count or whatever).

*EDIT* We should definitely hold off on using auto-host for now, though, because it is a new feature on Twitch which means it will be horribly buggy and broken.  Apparently auto-host kicks on if you keep dropping frames, and I'm sure it does the same if your internet completely dies for a bit too long.  Would be really annoying to deal with.

[Swordslinger]

I didn't read the blog on autohosting so i'm kinda in the dark here, but this may add onto Bbf's previous question, is can you control who gets autohosted, if you can this might be a feature and rule i'd be willing to follow and if not then will, the opposite effect will take place on my end. I'm full willing to do this but I really would like to control who gets hosted, adding onto what wolsk said some of us would like to distance ourselves from others or just distance ourselves in general, that's the only thing i'm skeptical about with this feature, if the answer is confirmed the answer will vary my actions on this rule.

[Denferok]

Alright I guess I should've edited the OP earlier instead of expecting people to read through all the posts before posting, my bad!

Anyways, I updated the OP, let me know what you think of the new suggestions

[Onynekyu]

I have a suggestion, since the team tends for improvements, the idea of using a discord server came in my mind. It is not a VIP discord server, but more like an organisation discord server. (Like fangame marathon discord server).

Let me explain, when i read opinions about "Removal of inactive members" part, it seems to be fair to deal with them case by case. Then you agree to accept them whenever they are active again. And by doing so, the team is looking for more interactivities, more reactivities, short time responses (this is what it looks like for me). That's why i suggest discord, since it is a powerful tool (and friendly user) which provides you these features, plus it gives you more visibility (who are the moderators), and pinged private messages (unlike twitch).

Let me illustrate this:

• For team members

They can informe the team and moderators about their stream. For example : "Sorry, i won't stream for X amount of time because [reasons], but i will be back". Or "@moderator, can you remove me from the stream ? Because [reason]". Plus, if an inactive member is on the discord server, his re-application is easier.

• For team moderators

It is easier for them to contact and send messages or warnings to members via pm, and by doing this, this is more professionally made. It could prevent some problems like Wolsk's. For example (via pm): "Hello, we haven't see you streaming for a while, do you plan to stream again ?". Or "Be careful, we notice you are not streaming a lot of fangames on your stream. Dont forget the team mainly provides fangames stream"

If you like this idea, it could become a requirement (just giving some ideas here):
- Must be on team discord server
- Must use discord

Hoping it will help you 

[larsral1]

Alright so i read through alot of the replies and gave everything some thought myself, and as a member who will probably get kicked for inactivity(i don't really stream often anymore, and haven't streamed fangames in a long time except 3 days in a row a couple weeks ago) i thought it could be nice to give some input.

One of the things i thought about is the thing about stuff like follower alerts. No indeed you cannot tell people the way they need to stream BUT as a team you can make the decision to ban follower alerts, personally i don't use them but i don't really mind it too much if streams use them, since i rarely encounter them.

Remove inactive/ people who don't stream fangames anymore:
I definetely think this should happen. i looked through the list of people on the team and i think that more than half i've never seen stream, or atleast not in the last few months, but ofcourse there could be people who only stream at times i'm asleep, so that number could be smaller. I definetely think that this should go through though. But the reapplying thing of kicked members being isntantly accepted i'm not sure about. I feel like this would be good but that you would need to make sure that they are actually serious about picking up streaming again and don't rejoin for a couple days and then stop streaming again.

English language for streamers:
I think it is definetely a must to use english. Sure i don't mind if people use multiple languages but they should atleast also use english and not only the other language.

The enforcing of autohosting:
Again, as a team you can make the decision to do this. I really don't think it's that big of a deal. I really don't see any good reason to not do this. Ofcourse there might be people who don't like it, but as a team you can just have set rules, if people don't like them they can also just join another team.

Different requirements:
I really think this point is too vague, semi-known is just too unclear so i can't really say much about this, but i do agree that people who have only been in the fangame community for a week shouldn't be allowed to join yet.

Remove members who no longer meet the requirements:
I don't see how people could all of a sudden not meet requirements anymore unless it's being inactive.

[bananaguy12mhc]

     I don't think you should remove the inactive members... What's even the point of that. Why don't people just streaming when they want to. And this auto-hosting thing, what if you host someone you do not want to host. I don't think people feel bad if they do not have viewers. I don't know if you think people should be more skilled to join the team now... It is really easy to get into this team, so I guess you have a good idea. Also why does English have to be the language, because many fangamers do not speak English. That does not make sense to me. I don't like follower alerts either but I think people should use it if they want. Also, I think in a different thread you said that people can't read chat list, but I don't see why they can't read chat list. Calling out lurkers is annoying but I think it should be allowed... Also about "stream quality," what is wrong with the quality. Are you talking about that flashing Wolsk played when he got follows? I don't think any streams are unwatchable so I don't know why you bring that up...
     Anyways, I think this team is pointless. No one uses this team, they just use the IWBTG page unless streamers are not playing IWBTG. I don't think being in the team makes you cool like you said...

[pieceofcheese87]

The twitch team is for people who actually stream on a regular basis, bananaguy. Just because you aren't on the wannabes doesn't mean you aren't part of the community. We want to boot the inactive members because there is no purpose for them to be there.

[bananaguy12mhc]

I don't know why you say that thing about me being in the community or not. I thought the twitch team is just for people who play fangames.

[aytoms29]

I don't know why you say that thing about me being in the community or not. I thought the twitch team is just for people who play fangames.

It's kinda for mainly fangamers. if you stream at a high quality and want to promote the community then you meet the goals of the twitch team.

[CakeSauc3]

I have a few questions and comments about the content in the original post.

The reason why I think we should do this is because once again this will significantly strengthen our brand and provide more of a reason to actually care about the twitch team. I'll be honest, right now the team feels rather meaningless, it's just there to show people that you're "hot stuff" or something.

What do we want the brand "The Wannabes" to be?  I think it's great if we want to improve something, but what is it we're working towards? Similar to what BBF_ mentioned earlier, I think we could either make the Wannabes an open community of everyone who streams fangames or an elite membership for only a select few.

Up until now I think people have joined to build/be a part of a community as well as to benefit from gaining exposure. I think it creates a really fun and diverse Twitch community at the moment, but if we want the team to have a more specific purpose than that, I would like to know what that is.

Since this will increase the value of being in the team, I think we'll also have to make the team requirements more strict and overall require more professional attitude.

Before getting to the other requirements, I'm curious about the team requiring a "more professional attitude". I've read through the discussion so far but haven't seen this brought up again. I would like to hear Den's thoughts on this, and discuss it from there.

Here are a few suggestions:
- Removal of inactive members (basically those who no longer exist within the community)
- Those who come back would not need to reapply and are able to rejoin instantly
- Make the whole "watchable stream" rule more strict
- Spend more time deciding whether the person in question is suitable to join (a small group of community managers would be great)
- Require english to be the broadcaster language (I.E the setting in your twitch dashboard, multiple language streams are still fine)
- Heavily discourage the use of follower alerts
- Heavily encourage all members of the team to use the autohosting

When I initially read this post the other day, these suggestions were much more vague and I wasn't so sure about them. At the moment, these look pretty good. Changing some of these things from requirements to strong recommendations is a great move, and leaving an open door for inactive members to return is fair.

As a current member of the team, I plan on activating autohosting to help out other team members once any bugs/issues are worked out (hosting seems all messed up for me lately). I'm all for strengthening the team, but I think it'd be interesting to know what exactly we want to accomplish.