Author Topic: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion  (Read 10314 times)

Denferok

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The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« on: September 28, 2016, 09:35:53 AM »
Hello everyone, a new Twitch feature was just released; auto hosting. What makes this a big deal is the fact that you can automatically host people that are in your Twitch team. I think this could be the perfect opportunity for us to strengthen our brand and help further support the smaller streamers in the community.

You can read about autohosting here https://blog.twitch.tv/grow-your-community-with-auto-hosting-e80c1460f6e1#.oobsqw3o0

First off, a bunch of questions pop upp immediately and I'll try my best to answer them.

The reason why I think we should do this is because once again this will significantly strengthen our brand and provide more of a reason to actually care about the twitch team. I'll be honest, right now the team feels rather meaningless, it's just there to show people that you're "hot stuff" or something. For example, if someone with next to no viewers is feeling bad then a massive host train could possibly cheer them up! Not to mention the other numerous benefits this would give.

Since this will increase the value of being in the team, I think we'll also have to make the team requirements more strict and overall require more professional attitude. Here are a few suggestions:
- Removal of inactive members (basically those who no longer exist within the community)
- Those who come back would not need to reapply and are able to rejoin instantly
- Make the whole "watchable stream" rule more strict
- Spend more time deciding whether the person in question is suitable to join (a small group of community managers would be great)
- Require english to be the broadcaster language (I.E the setting in your twitch dashboard, multiple language streams are still fine)
- Heavily discourage the use of follower alerts
- Heavily encourage all members of the team to use the autohosting

This is meant to be a discussion thread and this is not something that is set in stone. Please share your thoughts and this thread to get as many involved as possible, we need as many opinions and thoughts as we can get before we decide to pull the trigger on something as big as this. If you have any questions about this please post right away and we'll do our best to answer them.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 09:59:38 PM by Denferok »

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 10:10:24 AM »
I don't see any issue with pruning inactive members / members who don't stream frequently. However I do think there should be exceptions for certain people. As an example: patrickgh3 shouldn't be removed from the team since he provides irregular content that other streams don't provide such as game-making and it's not reasonable to have a consistently active stream of in development work.

he 'no follower alert' should be as self-explanatory as 'don't call out lurkers'. If anything is a requirement, having a non-obnoxious stream layout should be it and a follower alert should fall under the category of being obnoxious.

I don't have any comments on the rest.


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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 10:18:11 AM »
Hello all,

I want to comment on some of Den's points that are up for discussion, as well as comment on the auto-host feature.

First, on the subject of the auto-host:

There is no "bad side" to auto-hosting that I can think of. Auto-hosting is just one of a variety of ways we can promote other team members. Auto-hosting has been used by other communities via a bot for quite some time now, this is nothing new for Twitch. I do believe that auto-hosting can get a little stale after some time if the same broadcaster is being auto-hosted for weeks or months at a time from your channel, however, there still is no "downside" to it. Auto-hosting cannot lose you viewers - you're already offline! Although I am skeptical of Twitch's claim of an "average of 10% increase of viewership for 50% of participants" (which is already poorly worded in a small case study done over a short period of time, red flags everywhere), I think this is an overall positive change for us to adapt to in the community.

On the topic of new team "requirements" and suggestions:

I believe inactive members should be booted from the Twitch team at this time. However, I also believe if these inactive members become active again, a re-application to the team should be accepted immediately.

Den is quite vague on "increase of requirements", so I'm not entirely sure what is meant here. This could mean a higher bottom-line for skill (I am against this), more streaming experience (stream quality comes to mind, I am for this), or being more-known in the community (potentially suggesting a higher follower/average viewer count, I am against this). Clarification would be great on this point, but I think the 3 areas I listed here are probably what comes to mind under this new requirement, along with my stance on each.

A removal of members who do not meet requirements sounds a bit shifty. This will probably not apply to the "skill" portion of the requirements, and probably doesn't meet the "known" requirement (since you really can't be less-known ... I think), so this probably refers to streamers who have downgraded in quality of stream for a variety of reasons. Although I am not completely against this, I believe this needs to be treated on an extreme case-by-case basis. I really haven't observed anyone who "fell below" the requirements, other than inactivity, which has already been discussed above.

I do believe English should be the primary language of streamers on the team. However, I wholeheartedly support streamers who use 2 or more languages on their stream in an attempt to reach other communities. I have met many wonderful streamers from the French community who played Boshy and some wonderful streamers from the Russian community who ask questions about Kamilia constantly, among others. Many of these streams you will see with [EN/FR] or [EN/RU], or something similar in their title to signify that they are essentially running two communities in their stream at the same time. This should be encouraged, and opens up our team to a wider audience.

Banning the broadcaster on the team from using any alert is simply an overreach of power. Den cited streambig, a popular site for streaming tips by iateyourpie (great variety streamer). Although many do not like follower alerts, this is no reason to ban. A majority of people don't like strawberry ice cream, either - so you can't eat it on stream? Simply put, this is way too far of a requirement. I personally no longer use follower alerts after seeing how they did not benefit me as much as I liked - but that's not to say I shouldn't be allowed to use them.

I'd like to hear more community input on these matters, as I hope I'm not the only one who holds some of these opinions!

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 10:52:23 AM »
There's been some rumor and speculation flying around, so I'd like clarification on a couple of points:

1) Does the Twitch Auto-Host override a manual host you perform? If you are hosting a non-wannabe, in my mind it is not ok for the auto-host bot to decide when that host period ends. The only time it should be allowed to switch your host is when you are offline, and you have not chosen to host anyone, as that is literally dead time.

2) Can people be added to auto-host lists that are not on the team? If someone decides that sometimes they want to auto-host their friend who is not on the wannabes, should that be allowed?

Otherwise, I'm generally in agreement, except for a couple of points:

1) No follower alerts. I totally agree that they aren't necessary, and a lot of times I've not followed a stream to avoid the alert, but if someone wants a follower alert I don't think it should preclude them from being on the team.

2) English only. I agree with the general consensus that having non-English-speaking streamers on the team can only widen our audience. If you're concerned about language barriers, maybe ask that those streamers mark the languages in their title as most do, and also remember that you can specify your stream language on twitch itself, which handily notifies viewers what language they can expect in the stream.

The concept sounds good! I truly hope the introduction of this feature brings back some of the value offered by twitch teams.

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 11:07:44 AM »
Hello to anyone who reads this.

Though I'm not the most active streamer if at all but I have a lot of experience with Twitch so I'd still like to present my opinion on this. It'd be quite nice to have auto-host as a thing and as TJ already said there nothing bad about. Myself I do watch a bunch of fangame streams and it'd only benefit me so I don't have to find another stream when auto-host will do it for me :atkHappy:

On topic of team requirements I strongly support the "no follower alert rule". Many lurkers will find it disgusting and imo not only they don't benefit but make the stream look worse and sound worse when suddenly there is some random picture and sound mid-gameplay part and I wanna enjoy the stream not getting distracted by some random notification that I don't care about and only provides info for the streamer rather than the viewers themselves.

In terms kicking out inactives maybe that should be done but as again TJ mentioned some members provide quite an original content of their own. All in all should be kicked the completely "dead" people.

In terms of language I encourage English only because double language creates a complete mess in chat and on stream. Yes that maybe nice to get in people from many communities but at the same time half the stuff won't be understood because of language barrier. And I doubt streamers will translate literally everything to one language :p.

As a conclusion I guess auto-host should be a thing and new rules such as "no follower alert" and "English only" should be included in order to join the team.
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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 11:11:35 AM »
There's been some rumor and speculation flying around, so I'd like clarification on a couple of points:

1) Does the Twitch Auto-Host override a manual host you perform? If you are hosting a non-wannabe, in my mind it is not ok for the auto-host bot to decide when that host period ends. The only time it should be allowed to switch your host is when you are offline, and you have not chosen to host anyone, as that is literally dead time.

2) Can people be added to auto-host lists that are not on the team? If someone decides that sometimes they want to auto-host their friend who is not on the wannabes, should that be allowed?

As for 1:
"When auto hosting is enabled, the system will select a channel to host whenever your channel is offline or whenever your channel is not actively hosting another user. Auto Hosting will never interfere with your live channel or active host. It will only take effect once your channel is offline. Auto hosting will wait for three minutes of inactivity before hosting a channel. So choosing someone to host is still ideal when going offline. This delay is because we do not want broadcasters to be surprised by unintended hosting if they are broadcasting but are having technical difficulties. Auto hosting will also immediately un-host when your channel goes live."

So no, it does not disrupt a manual host. It does however start autohosting 3 minutes after going offline.

Regarding 2:
You can add other streams to your list of auto host channels. From what I can tell it will always prioritize people on your twitchteam over the other channels.

If you scroll down in this article you can read about the autohosting.
https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/2508329

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 11:28:57 AM »
yo, I really like the idea of making the team an actual thing again and removing the follow alerts is fine by me as I can't stand being but on the spotlight like that and I imagine its the same for others. But on the other hand I also feel like it wouldnt really tarnish the name of our team and stuff like that so im fine with whatever for that rule.

One thing I wanted to clarify however is what the word "inactive" would mean as there are streamers who stream none at all and there are streamers who stream 2-3 days a week.

 My input on this would be to keep members of the community who stream occasionally and talk to the community on the team and removing people who almost never stream from the team. Even if they are a good part of the community and talk to people, if they dont stream at all or like once a month it just seems useless to keep them on the team.

But yeah i hope this is recieved well and that the team can finally be put to use again.
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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 12:25:05 PM »
I like the idea of strengthen Wannabes team and help further support the smaller streamers. So i'm totally behind you guys !  :atkHappy:

I have no opinion about "no alert notification", but i would like to share my experience about streaming in both langage (although i'm not a member of the team) as streamer and as viewer.

As streamer, i try as much as possible to speak in english because i do not want to ostracize english speakers, but sometime when there are no english-speakers, i speak in french (depending on my chat activities). The good point about that, that i can reach some people that english stream cannot.
Just an example, when i participate at some races from "Get Yourself Fangaming", some french persons seem interested and ask questions about these races (i managed to bring some persons to participate into some of these races ^^)

As a viewer, sometime i like watching german streams although i have no clues on what's going on. On Den's link about "follower alerts are bad", the author said : "That is a lot of people who are lurking that just want to watch someone play a video game or have a stream up for background noise". This is my case when i watch some german stream, sometimes i put them as background noise and I feel at ease.
When i'm active on chat, i try to learn some german words by having fun with the streamer and viewers. If the streamer isn't a douche, then he can switch both langage and makes his viewers at ease. I agree with anyone who would say that it's only apply for small streamers with a decent chat activities.

So I will be sad if some potential members are removed because of "only english" rule, even if their skills are great.

Just leaving my thought here, and keep this great communities for being awesome ! :atkHappy:

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 12:33:51 PM »
Autohosting seems cool, and TJ says there's no downsides, so let's try it out. And I also like the idea of trimming down / sprucing up the team at this time.

I like TJ's idea of booting a lot of people for inactivity, and then re-accepting applications immediately if they become active again. I don't know where the cutoff should be. Haven't streamed in 1 month, 2 months, maybe even 3 weeks? Right now it's been almost a month since I personally last streamed and I would be fine with being taken off knowing the re-add if active policy.

I don't think language should be a requirement. Having good streamers of other languages on the team can only help attract more people interested in fangames. See Ony's post!

I dislike follower alerts as much as the next guy, but the only person on the team I know off the top of my head that has them is Wolsk, and I don't mind them there. I'd say don't make it a requirement until in the future we have a problem with it.

Another note, I'd like it if the team page got some new graphics. Maybe we can get ToylineAssembly or someone to make some stuff.

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 01:45:55 PM »
I made an account just to post here :denKamilia_v2: I'd like to chip in my thoughts as a viewer.

Autohosting would be cool and useful to me personally, I don't watch many people who aren't on the wannabes these days, so I can't see a downside to it. I'm not so sure about making it a requirement though. Some people may want not to (for various reasons) and it doesn't sound very fair to force it upon them if they want to be part of the team. You could strongly encourage it, sure, and you could ask people who don't enable autohosting to see if they have a valid reason for not doing so? But that's quite different.

I talked to Den about this and he felt that enforcing autohosting would do away with any sort of "if he's not doing it I'm not doing it either" arguments. Personally, I don't think that's the right way of dealing with that kind of thing. If there is such bad blood between wannabes then that should be managed maturely by the group leader, including kicking people out if it's felt necessary. You can't force people to like each other. In fact if there are any problems between people, this will most likely bring them to the surface so that they can be dealt with.

Moving on to the other requirements which I had a few comments on:
- Removing inactive members is a good idea as long as it's done on a case-by-case basis rather than a hard and fast principle, for the same reason TJ said.
- Increase the requirements - talked to Den, he said this only referred to people's status in the community. I hope this doesn't mean a viewer/follower count though, but I do agree people should be very well known to be part of the group. This and the previous point will make it quite a nice group for streamer and viewer alike, hopefully.
- Require the streamer not to have a follower alert - YES, please do this. This is probably the most agreeable point on here, I hope I don't have to explain why. If you don't do this I'll pester you until you do it.

Keep up the good work Den & Wannabes. ( ᴗ)

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 01:46:57 PM »
As for removing inactive members i'm a very off and on member when it comes to streaming, since my equipment is made of potatoes  and right now i have a personal problem on top of that. What would you do for members that say not stream for 2 weeks, stream consistently for a month, stop for another 2 weeks or more, so on and so fourth, this sounds like a stupid question to me for some reason but I feel like i want it addressed
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Zurai

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 02:13:30 PM »
Looks like a good opportunity to strenghthen the team again.

-Remove inactive members:

Den and me already did this once. I wrote a personal message to everyone on the team and asked about their streaming future and if they intend to stream again. Most people answered and were totally cool about being removed, some didn't answered and just got removed. I would have not problem doing the same thing again. (Inactive means for me not streaming for atleast a month)

-Increase requirements to join the team

Depends on what you mean with that. I watch rather someone new to fangames who is interactive with a mic, than someone who writes occasionally into the chat and is a good player.
So im totally against using some kind of "Be able to beat atleast...." requirement.
What I think should be a requirement tho, is that the person MUST HAVE streaming experience and know how to make a stream not look like shit. I dont want someone on the team who is capturing the whole desktop just to see the 800x600 window somewhere in the middle of a blank desktop. Also having already streamed some fangames should be a requirement (maybe atleast since a month?) so no one completely new gets accepted just to leech the hosts.

-Remove members who no longer meet the requirements

Not sure what you mean with that. For example someone who is streaming, but no fangames at all? I would message them and kick them. The team is about fangames and not Runescape or whatever. Of course its alright to stream other stuff, there are always these days were you dont feel like playing them. But fangames should be still the "Main attraction" in your stream.

-Require English Broadcaster language

Im kinda torn apart on this one. I personally never watch anything else than english streams. But I can see on the other hand, how streams with other broadcaster languages can benefit the team.

-Follower alerts

Fuck follower alerts. But I dont know if you want to tell someone else how they have to design their stream. But everyone who is reading this: Dont use them. You will lose more possible followers than you'd get.

Alright, thats everything from my side !

Stop by and say hello at www.twitch.tv/zurairofl :PogChamp:

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 02:44:48 PM »
It all boils down to how "exclusive" you want The Wannabes to be.

Too many members and it doesn't mean anything to be in it, too little members and it might as well be a VIP club.

A question about the auto-hosting: How does it choose what member of the team gets hosted if several are streaming? This could lead to some very unfavorable situations if two or more members happen to stream at the same time frequently, while only one gets all the hosts (if it depends on viewer count, follower count or whatever).




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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2016, 04:58:50 PM »
Just read through everything here and thanks for posting your thoughts, sorry about being so vague on some of the topics.

With the language thing, with broadcaster language I meant the option in your twitch dashboard. Changing that would change the language requirement for the chat and everything which I think is bad for the team. Of course multiple languages are fine, as long as you don't change the setting.

About increasing the requirements, I don't mean in terms of skill. In fact, the skill requirement is very arbitrary in the first place, it's mostly there to make sure the person in question is actually "serious" about fangames and doesn't just play them for a week and never again just to leech hosts. When I talk about increasing the requirements I mostly just mean about their activity within the community, personally I don't know if it's a good idea to accept someone who no one knows about. The person should at least be semi-known within the community. Having a follower / viewer requirement? Absolutely not, I'm heavily against this. And finally about the requirements, having a watchable stream would be further incentivized.

People who are removed from the team would be able to instantly join back if they wish, without needing to apply or anything.

When it comes to banning follower alerts, this is mostly to tell people that follower alerts are bad and hurt you more than they help. Smaller streamers might not realize this and think that the alerts are actually helping. Banning follower alerts sort of helps these streamers understand.

Also a few of your questions are answered here, sorry I forgot to link it in the OP https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/2508329

tehjman1993

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Re: The Wannabes auto hosting discussion
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2016, 05:18:07 PM »
Just read through everything here and thanks for posting your thoughts, sorry about being so vague on some of the topics.

With the language thing, with broadcaster language I meant the option in your twitch dashboard. Changing that would change the language requirement for the chat and everything which I think is bad for the team. Of course multiple languages are fine, as long as you don't change the setting.

About increasing the requirements, I don't mean in terms of skill. In fact, the skill requirement is very arbitrary in the first place, it's mostly there to make sure the person in question is actually "serious" about fangames and doesn't just play them for a week and never again just to leech hosts. When I talk about increasing the requirements I mostly just mean about their activity within the community, personally I don't know if it's a good idea to accept someone who no one knows about. The person should at least be semi-known within the community. Having a follower / viewer requirement? Absolutely not, I'm heavily against this. And finally about the requirements, having a watchable stream would be further incentivized.

People who are removed from the team would be able to instantly join back if they wish, without needing to apply or anything.

When it comes to banning follower alerts, this is mostly to tell people that follower alerts are bad and hurt you more than they help. Smaller streamers might not realize this and think that the alerts are actually helping. Banning follower alerts sort of helps these streamers understand.

Also a few of your questions are answered here, sorry I forgot to link it in the OP https://help.twitch.tv/customer/portal/articles/2508329

I'm glad we are in agreement with the multiple languages. It really does open the community up to others! English, however, should most certainly be the primary language used on the team.

I still believe the "semi-known" requirement is not defined enough. This would imply a follower / viewer requirement, which you stated that you are against (so am I). In order to keep a rigid team structure and requirement list, you need to be able to define everything you want from new applicants, as well as applying those rules to current team members. A watchable stream, in terms of quality (moreso bitrate) is worth mentioning to new applicants.

I'm also glad the auto-rejoin for members who were previously on the team is considered here.

My biggest distance in opinion, however, has been regarding the alerts. I actually think you are in agreement with me, Den. Yes, we've seen time after time again that a majority of people do not want a follower alert, and can be a turn-off for new followers. I, as well as basically everyone in this thread, understands that. However, you seem to imply that you want to make new applicants aware of how detrimental it can be. I think a ban on this is taking this too far - why can you not state to them, "we want you to know that not a lot of team members here use a follower alert because we believe it does more harm than good, but you are free to use whatever you want on your stream." This would be a much more appropriate way of handling this.

I also still have one question on the auto-host that wasn't made 100% clear by the article - if you are hosting someone manually, and then you go offline, will the auto-host wait 3 minutes and then override your manual host? The wording in the article is a little confusing, so I'm not entirely sure.

Edit: Thank you Zebbe! That clears it up quite a bit.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 05:31:12 PM by tehjman1993 »