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Gameplay & Discussion / Re: Serious fangame making questions
« on: November 26, 2016, 01:21:46 PM »
Might have misinterpreted a few of your questions, so if any answer doesn't make sense, sorry.
Mostly agree with everyone else here, don't think anyone is entitled to anything but it's nice to give people credit/support for their work.
It's ok to give heavy criticism but if by harsh you mean going overboard in how you say it, then it's technically still the person's right to do so, but wouldn't say it's really ok. As someone who constantly exaggerates/fail to express my opinions properly, I often catch myself regretting the way I said some bit of criticism and see many other people that get too carried away as well, especially in stream chats where there's always some degree of hivemind going on. We shouldn't stop criticism but maybe try to be more careful of how we do it, focusing more on praising the effort than bashing on results we might find negative.
No patience should be expected imo, if someone doesn't like a game and doesn't want to play it then they shouldn't feel forced to, though giving the games a chance to prove you wrong is generally good attitude. On the forgiveness part it gets kinda tricky, as in generally we should give the same amount of respect we would expect for ourselves, but if the makers themselves were doing something disrespectful to begin with, I don't particularly find myself too forgiving, the only problem is that this relies a lot on opinion and impression, so there's room for a lot of misunderstanding.
Don't really have a good answer for this tbh, best you can probably do is be mindful of how each creator you talk to takes criticism and try to balance the amount of criticism/encouraging on a case by case basis.
You can be fully proud of any work you do, even if that work is "just" importing and organizing screens to make a medley, finding good sprites/songs/sound effects to use, there was still effort in that. And for projects like spookjam, like kady said, nothing wrong with being proud of the team/as a team member as well.
Might get hated for saying this, but I actually find it kinda annoying and hypocritical how some fan-based communities get so touchy about people taking assets from within the community while taking a truckload of assets from outside is perfectly ok. I mean, if you can reach out to the maker of a sprite you wanted to use to ask it's only polite to do so, but when people get so mad about someone not asking, it's not like we as a community generally reach out to companies, or even indie devs, to ask if we can use their content for fangames a whole lot as well, that always felt like a double standard to me.
Like others said already, deserve is not really a good word, as no one is automatically owed attention for what they do, but if you feel like something should get more attention than it got, nothing wrong with saying so or trying to promote it, just don't be forceful about it.
There might be a few makers who stick to fangames because it's their comfort zone even though they could probably make good original creations, but for the most part the people creating fangames aren't really trading the time they would otherwise be making these other projects. In fact starting with fangames, that already have engines and other tools to work with, plus an active community to give feedback provides a place for new devs to grow and maybe make their own stand-alone projects later if they feel like it.
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How much appreciation and support (if any) do fangame creators deserve, and are they currently getting enough?
Mostly agree with everyone else here, don't think anyone is entitled to anything but it's nice to give people credit/support for their work.
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Is it okay to heavily criticize people’s fangames that they made on their own time for everyone to enjoy?
It's ok to give heavy criticism but if by harsh you mean going overboard in how you say it, then it's technically still the person's right to do so, but wouldn't say it's really ok. As someone who constantly exaggerates/fail to express my opinions properly, I often catch myself regretting the way I said some bit of criticism and see many other people that get too carried away as well, especially in stream chats where there's always some degree of hivemind going on. We shouldn't stop criticism but maybe try to be more careful of how we do it, focusing more on praising the effort than bashing on results we might find negative.
Quote
How much patience and forgiveness (if any) should fangame streamers and players be expected to have?
No patience should be expected imo, if someone doesn't like a game and doesn't want to play it then they shouldn't feel forced to, though giving the games a chance to prove you wrong is generally good attitude. On the forgiveness part it gets kinda tricky, as in generally we should give the same amount of respect we would expect for ourselves, but if the makers themselves were doing something disrespectful to begin with, I don't particularly find myself too forgiving, the only problem is that this relies a lot on opinion and impression, so there's room for a lot of misunderstanding.
Quote
What is the right balance of encouraging quality fangames while not scaring off potentially good creators?
Don't really have a good answer for this tbh, best you can probably do is be mindful of how each creator you talk to takes criticism and try to balance the amount of criticism/encouraging on a case by case basis.
Quote
To what extent can you be proud of a fangame that heavily uses other people’s content? (spook jam, medleys, and in general using music+sprites+sounds made by others)
You can be fully proud of any work you do, even if that work is "just" importing and organizing screens to make a medley, finding good sprites/songs/sound effects to use, there was still effort in that. And for projects like spookjam, like kady said, nothing wrong with being proud of the team/as a team member as well.
Quote
Is it okay to use the self-made assets of other people’s fangames?
Might get hated for saying this, but I actually find it kinda annoying and hypocritical how some fan-based communities get so touchy about people taking assets from within the community while taking a truckload of assets from outside is perfectly ok. I mean, if you can reach out to the maker of a sprite you wanted to use to ask it's only polite to do so, but when people get so mad about someone not asking, it's not like we as a community generally reach out to companies, or even indie devs, to ask if we can use their content for fangames a whole lot as well, that always felt like a double standard to me.
Quote
To what extent (if any) are quality fangames not getting attention they deserve?
Like others said already, deserve is not really a good word, as no one is automatically owed attention for what they do, but if you feel like something should get more attention than it got, nothing wrong with saying so or trying to promote it, just don't be forceful about it.
Quote
To what extent (if any) are fangame creators limiting their creative growth as opposed to making freeware games for a bigger, more general audience?
There might be a few makers who stick to fangames because it's their comfort zone even though they could probably make good original creations, but for the most part the people creating fangames aren't really trading the time they would otherwise be making these other projects. In fact starting with fangames, that already have engines and other tools to work with, plus an active community to give feedback provides a place for new devs to grow and maybe make their own stand-alone projects later if they feel like it.
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