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Messages - zaphod77

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16
Game Design / Re: Post your Code Snippets
« on: January 19, 2016, 06:21:06 PM »
This is for I wanna Be The Studio Engine YoYoYo Edition.

I've created a cherry that will after a number of ticks that you can assign after creation, aim itself at the player, and that will repeat the action a defined number of times. It can optionally change speed when it does this, and then change speed again each time after.

(click to show/hide)

I modifed scrCreateShapes for testing this.  you can, of course, make colored versions of this object easily enough.

There are many things you can do with this object.

1) make a shape that expands, then aims all it's cherries at you.
2) make a shot that curves towards you for a bit and accelerates
3) place a mine that speeds off in your direction a while later.

making versions of other/random colors is left as an exercise to the reader.

17
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 19, 2016, 03:52:44 PM »
I see what you are saying, but i suspect that i haven't explained my position well enough..

I will give a simplified and very contrived example.

There are 5 switches. ONE of them is required to open the door. the other 4 will cause spikes to rise from the floor and kill you. these spikes are screenwide, and avoiding them is impossible once triggered.

lets' say 90% of the time, it's switch B that opens the door, but 5 percent of the time, i's A, 2.5 percent, it's C, 1.25 it's D, and 1.25 percent it's E.

Now clearly it's my fault if i die when i pick E, since it's very unlikely not to kill me. and i will know thaat after a coupel of attempts.  But if I pick B, and still die, is that somehow my fault?

Going back to the boss. the bottommost central platform is a good position to attack the bottom head. I can deal with anything that comes from there regardless of RNG.  If arrows show up and cause trouble i can drop to the bottom and shoot them. i can dodge green flying stuff, i can dodge the laugh flame, the small bullets and the triple beam are dodged for free, and for the big spread and the aimed stream i can drop to the floor to survive.   while the position isn't safe, there's nothing that approaches that platform I can't deal with, even if the top head is still there. After i have to leave it, it's safe to return to it after the next attack starts.

If there's a place that i can attack the head from, and can always react to whatever may come, even if said reaction is to go to a different spot, which may or may not allow attacking the head, then it's a good position, even though it's not safe.

A bad position is one where the game can throw something impossible for you to deal with regardless of reflexes if you are there.  If there's always some sort of warning sign that will tell you when to move out of there, it's not a bad position.  It may be challenging, but it might be the only option.

I suspect we have different understandings of what counts as a bad position.  I've accepted that the upper corner is bad, because you can be hosed by arrows there.  Everything else can be dealt with 100% of the time, including triple beam after big bullet spread. 

So to put it simply. is there a position that you can attack the top head from, that there is ALWAYS a warning of when you need to abort attacking the head and return to a good position on the bottom?  If there's always an escape possible, and a way to know the escape is needed,  there's a working strategy.

If no such spot exists, then i maintain that you can lose and not have it be your fault.

18
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 19, 2016, 02:07:17 AM »
100% strategy is not the same as 100% pattern.

You can't go tell me there's no way to be sure of being able to attack the top head, and then tell  me that my deaths are all my fault.

If there is a strategy that avoids all bad positions, that's a 100% strategy.

If there is no strategy to avoid all bad positions, then how is is my fault if I end up in one?

19
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 18, 2016, 06:36:12 PM »
You can easily kill the chaser quickly enough in Dark Blue, and then get to a position where dodging the other attacks is most comfortable for you (probably exactly opposite of the boss). Pretty much guaranteed win everytime once you learn how to dodge his attacks.

Okay, i backed up my save, went back and tried again. seems i gave up a little too soon trying to kill the chaser. seems it requires SIX shots in that version, and a fair invulnerability period after the shots.  I did notice the flashing but i could have sworn last time i tried killing one i got killed by the next attack before it died.

20
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 18, 2016, 04:08:04 PM »
Five times by two different combinations. Only #2 is truly impossible and yes it can happen. Reaching the bottom in time is most likely a player's fault and there are an infinite amount of combinations in which could happen that could slow you down. I'm almost certain that #1 happened more often for you than #2. I still stand by my statement of 'zilch to none'.
twice from number 2, and once from number three.
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Big Bullet Attack: There is a safe spot in the top left that you already know about but it's risky to stand there. There are several others where you can drop down and stand without getting hit.
i know there are others.  but i can't shoot the top head from them.
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Mini Bullet Attack: Easier than the big bullet but the top left corner isn't a safe spot anymore (barely) and it makes more sense to play safe and drop down.
that attack itself is no problem. i drop to the second platform and jump and shoot at it.
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Chex Mix Barrage: Everything is shootable in this and is easy enough to carve your own path. It's completely RNG and even with that you can negate most of it that is in the way.
Not everything is shootable. an arrow can be high or low enough that you can't shoot it, but it can still clip you.  It's not an issue on the bottom because you can rapidly flee for the top if needed. but going from top to bottom is slower to start...
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Triple Laser: Simple Pattern. If you stand in the top left corner during the Big Bullet Attack and this attack follows, you're most likely screwed. This was the risk you take by doing that.
You are only screwed if an arrow also gets in the way.  I dodged the triple beam after the big bullet spread from the top corner many times.

But if i hold back because arrows MIGHT show up i'll never get a hit.
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Green Laugh Thing: Easy, the active hit box for it is so short you can just move slightly and move back without much issue.
I realized the hitbox was ever so slightly smaller then it looked, but are you telling me it's only a few pixels wide?!? That I could have tap dodged it? it sure looks like it's a block width, when i'm on a one block platform
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1) Top left corner is risky. It's a RISK that a player chooses to dodge one attack rather than going somewhere else for the added benefit of ending the boss fight sooner. Either don't go there or do better at shooting the arrows. This is a fault in strategy.
There are only two ways to hit the top head that I know of.
1) stand in the top corner, which you say is risky.
2) stand on a platform below that and jump and fire. But that's not safe either. you jump, the triple beeam stars just as you press jump, and a couple of arrows are preventing you from landing back on the platform.  t this point you will be hit by either the top or middle beam regardless.
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2)"Stream" I assume means the targeted bullet attack. Choosing the correct path to go is a challenge that the player has to decide. Either they riskily fall down to the bottom to try and get out of the way or they move upwards. Depends on the layout of the RNG more than anything but should hardly be an issue due to the slow speed of the targeted bullet attack.
well i can't move upwards if i'm at the top.  to properly herd it i have to stand still until the bullets are all on the screen. but when arrows show that's not always an option.  the option of the rapid drop to the bottom is sometimes blocked by arrows...
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3) React faster. There is more than enough time to react to dodge it. Again, punishes poor position choice if you decide to dodge the Big Bullet attack at the top left or choose poor positioning for the Chex Mix attack.
4) see #3
The issue is the chex mix attack can be COMBINED with any other attack. it's trivial to deal with on it's own, but many combinations can force you out of position, causing a "positioning error"
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...there is no sure-fire way of killing the boss. Everything you had mentioned with your issues with it has been a positioning/player issue.
If the boss cannot be mastered to the point of being killed on every attempt, then by definition it has unfair RNG.
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I won't argue the fact that the giant laser attack can have impossible RNG and as I said before the chances of it happening are zilch to none.
You are attacking the top head.  You are doing this because the bottom head is already beaten.  you are doing this by jumping from the second platform, because that's the safer method. Arrows show, so naturally you are jumping and shooting them as well and hoping to shoot a mushroom.  You see the danger show up the instant you pressed the jump. you need to drop down fast. but there's an arrow passing through the gap you need to use.  What's the right thing to do? how is that always escapeable?

Can you outline a strategy that guarantees a win that doesn't require psychic RNG predicting powers?

I'm fully aware that a good 50-70% of the deaths were my fault.  i'd mess up a jump or react too slowly to the triple beam, or be suprized when a second one shows up when i hop back to the top after dodging the first beam (this is totally dodgeable, but you have to be alert).

Hindsight is 20/20.  as long as rng isn't involved, stuff that's pretty much unsurviveable the first time is to be expected.  But it really ticks me off when the rng causes deaths that are only avoidable in retrospect.

Oddly enough, i felt that every single death on the chase section was either pilot error or new territory.

Oh yeah.  I wanna be the dark blue.  That games final boss, as included in i wanna get rekt.   The one i was only able to beat when it decided it didn't want to summon a chaser.  that rapid charge attack (that you have to dodge with about 7 well timed jumps, one for each charge) is pretty much impossible to deal with when the chaser forces you to jump at the wrong time and you get skewered at the apex of the jump you were forced into by the fast chaser. I don't consider that good boss design.


21
Game Design / Re: How should Extra Stages/Screens be implemented?
« on: January 17, 2016, 09:24:23 PM »
Having an awesome secret area, especially one that's not too hard to find, will encourage the player to go secret hunting.

Awesome secrets make secret hunting more fun.

22
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 17, 2016, 07:46:45 PM »
I got hosed FIVE times by that combination,in two variations.
1) i fail to reach the bottom in time because i need to jump to dodge an arrow.
2) one clips my head JUST as the beam ends since the teeny gap blocks my shots unless i jump,and whne the bema is gone it's too late.

Zilch to none, huh?

But since you seem to know so much, what's wrong with my strategy.

FOr bottom i wait on either the floor or the lowest platform. i can dodge anything the game throws at me from there.

The middle is trivial. just wait patiently at the bottom until a clear path opens.

For the top, i see the following.
when the big bullet barrage comes, the safe spot for it is upper corner. there is time to escape when it's followed by the triple laser. while there are other safe spots, that's the one that lets me attack as well.
I drop down to the platform right below during the small bullet barrage. i do it a bit before i actually have to so try to avoid getting trapped by arrows or the triple beam. If i'm already there i jump and shoot.
the attack with the green things the at fly and fire a few shots i simply hop off to dodge the vertical bullet then go back up.
As long as there aren't arrows in the way, i can drop to the bottom to dodge the big red beam.
For the stream attack i wait at either the corner platform or the one under it and switch when they are all on screen to dodge easily.
The green flame will force me out at times, and it sometimes uses a lot of trouble. it is possible to dodge and stay on the upper platform, but it requires a lot of precision.

What ends up getting me

1)arrows show up right after i go into the top corner to dodge a pattern, and sometimes one of them is JUST below my gun and clips me.
2) something else, usually an arrow, forces me to jump and a stream starts DURING the jump, causing a much nastier combo of shots.  usually an emergency drop to the ground will get me away, but sometimes there's an arrow in the way...
3) that blasted triple beam starts JUST after i jump to dodge something else, and because i've already comitted to the jump, i can't drop back down in time to dodge it.
4) stupid arrow gets in my way trying to dodge the triple beam.

Is there a 100% safe strategy for taking out the top head quickly?

23
Gameplay & Discussion / Re: Post the fangame you just beat!
« on: January 16, 2016, 07:05:30 AM »
Just beat I wanna GENKI with you.

Very creative gimmicks and bosses.  Was pretty cool that in most cases if something seemed impossible there was another way.

True final boss second part made me rage a lot though.

Just wish i understood the story.

24
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 16, 2016, 06:57:10 AM »
I got walled in more times then I can count on Genki's true final boss.

Usually i would be attacking the top head, and it would herd me right into the top laser beam out of the triplw. Or an arrow would show up during the big red beam and clip me just as it ended.   or the double green flame would force me to drop down into an arrow or turn the stream pattern that JUT started into an actual wall.  SOmetimes i would be blocked by arrows and fail to dodge the giant beam.

25
Engines / Re: I Wanna Be The Studio Engine YoYoYo Edition
« on: January 14, 2016, 05:17:51 AM »
I never have trusted key profilers, and have always experienced lag when i've used one.

It's hard enough dealing worth lcd lag when trying to thread the needle.  add controller conversion lag to that...

I'm fine with playing games on pc.  but thought someone else might wanna try it.

26
Might want to tell people wha category each of those beginner fangames are in.

I think to qualify as a beginner needle game one would have to have a save point on every platform you can stop on that's after a tricky jump. :) And I don't think such a fangame exists.

Beyond that i think there should be beginner games from all categories.

27
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 12, 2016, 08:14:11 PM »
Nowhere is it written that you have to remove ALL variance.

If walling really is that rare, then see how many times in a row you can clear the 10 minute stage of i wanna be the music on extreme. :)

I also get the becoming complacent when the pattern is easy thing, but there's a difference between that and when the pattern being easy is the only thing enabling the clear in the first place.   And in that case, complacency tends to not be an issue.

28
Game Design / Re: RNG in avoidance. Doing it RIGHT.
« on: January 12, 2016, 03:52:51 AM »
My main idea here was to avoid situations lie I wanna be the music extreme 10 minute mode, where you can and will get walled in through no fault of your own.  Trial and error is a big part of fangames and is to be expected, but only having a chance to beat the pattern 1/10th of the time because it will trap you no matter what the rest of the time is not my idea of fun.

Another thing that bugs me is the A.I. Roulette from hell, where any attack can follow after any other, and some combinations are much harder to survive than others.  One example is that boss with blobs. if it decided not to do the summon a chaser attack you've got it in the bag, but if i opens with that, sme of the other attacks are really hard to deal with with the chaser around.   I finally ended up beating it the first time that attack was unused after i had learned the others.

29
Engines / Re: I Wanna Be The Studio Engine YoYoYo Edition
« on: January 12, 2016, 01:58:56 AM »
Well, enough people asked to piss off kayin, so...

https://kayin.moe/iwbtg/forums/index.php?topic=1604.0


30
Gameplay & Discussion / Some insight into the japanese community.
« on: January 11, 2016, 04:31:45 PM »
Despite the fact that many people seem to think that Japanese people don't like hard games, there is a significant community who seems to feel to the contrary.  Additionally, they seem to like ridiculously hard and unfair games more then fair ones that are only very hard, strangely enough.

Here are some COMMERCIALLY RELEASED games that were pretty big in Japan.

1) Spelunker... for NES. This game had ludicrously unfair controls, and you couldn't even fall your height without dying. And yet it was popular enough to get a HD Remake, with an option to make jumping off of ropes and ladders less punishing.  This one DID make it to the USA, but bombed horribly, though the HD remake was more appreciated.   The Atari 8 bit original from the USA was easily as hard, but had more fair control.
2) Tower of Druaga, a game which you have no HOPE of beating without a guide. This was an ARCADE game originally! It got ported to many systems, and they added on "Another Tower" which is an even harder version of the game.  Oh, and there was no guide for it at first.  Only blind faith that the game is possible and sheer persistence (and a LOT of quarters) allows it to be beaten. This never made it to the usa, that I can remember, until the Namco Museum series, and they give you the guide. And it's STILL hard even with infinite continues!

So it's little surprise that Games such as

Kaizo Mario World
Syobon Action (cat mario)
The Life Ending Adventure of Owata

get created.

So I Wanna Be The Guy is right up their alley.

Pretty much if a game get hard and unfair enough, it crosses the line twice and becomes fun in their opinion.  There's a video of a japanese female playing Spelunker for the first time. She starts LAUGHING after a couple deaths.

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