Fangames > Gameplay & Discussion
Serious fangame making questions
Sudnep:
These are my personal opinions and not facts but I feel strongly enough about them to defend them. Deserve is a loaded word like TJ had said. I will still use it though because this is opinion based.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---How much appreciation and support (if any) do fangame creators deserve, and are they currently getting enough?
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I don't believe creators deserve any appreciation or support but I do believe that they should be recognized for the work they had put into creating their finished product based on their ability to create a unique and interesting experience for the player to enjoy.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---Is it okay to heavily criticize people’s fangames that they made on their own time for everyone to enjoy?
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I don't think its right to heavily criticize people, especially if the creator had not asked for it. I find its not helpful to have random_person#244 make a comment on the pixel placement of every individual spike on your game. Part of being a creator is to be able to read the criticizer just as much as the critique itself. If the person who comment on it has little experience and very little knowledge about the entire scheme of things their feedback is usually unimportant and otherwise not worth the time to consider.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---How much patience and forgiveness (if any) should fangame streamers and players be expected to have?
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I think people who stream fangames should have some patience and forgiveness but to say how much is an entirely another story. I think its fair to say that if you simply just do not like the game you should not play it but its hard to say how patient and forgiving a streamer should be considering how a lot of fangames are very much the same and you can usually take a good guess as to what will come next and if its worth your investment to play.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---What is the right balance of encouraging quality fangames while not scaring off potentially good creators?
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There is no good balance for this and there will never be. There are people who are make their first fangame and get entirely destroyed by this community. I've seen it several times where its shoved down their throat about how bad they are which bothers me a lot. Potentially good creators aren't good creators right now and so their ability to judge and criticize the critique itself isn't there yet. As it stands right now I believe a lot of the community is extremely harsh in their critique.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent can you be proud of a fangame that heavily uses other people’s content? (spook jam, medleys, and in general using music+sprites+sounds made by others)
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As proud as you want to be about it. There isn't any issue being proud with making a game like this. However, I do think that if you don't build off of the creativity of others its not as rewarding or deserving of recognition or respect. As an example I think Spook Jam is unique and creative in its own right and is not the creation of just one person but many.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---Is it okay to use the self-made assets of other people’s fangames?
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I do not feel this is appropriate and it bothers me a lot even though its not my own. It makes me lose respect for the people who do this.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent (if any) are quality fangames not getting attention they deserve?
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There are fangames that I think are quality fangames and there are fangames others think are quality fangames. There is a very large difference of opinion on something like this but I do think there are many good fangames that don't get the attention they deserve.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent (if any) are fangame creators limiting their creative growth as opposed to making freeware games for a bigger, more general audience?
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I think after making several fangames of the same type you limit creative growth as a gamemaker, but not as a fangame creator.
WetWookie:
--- Quote ---How much appreciation and support (if any) do fangame creators deserve, and are they currently getting enough?
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I think there is a ton of support for creators right now during the creation phase. I don't think I've ever seen a question go unanswered in the gamemaking section of discord. As for post release I think we can do better. Every time I check twitch there are the same 5 or so games being played. It seems that when you release a game it will be played for maybe 2 days or so and then be forgotten.
--- Quote ---Is it okay to heavily criticize people’s fangames that they made on their own time for everyone to enjoy?
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As a content creator there is nothing more important to me than taking in people's criticism and using it to make my next game better. It also important to get feedback from multiple people as nothing will please everybody.
--- Code: ---How much patience and forgiveness (if any) should fangame streamers and players be expected to have?
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I think we get an appropriate amount right now.
--- Code: ---To what extent can you be proud of a fangame that heavily uses other people’s content? (spook jam, medleys, and in general using music+sprites+sounds made by others)
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Personally I don't really understand the draw of medleys but I'll leave that to other people. As for music, sprites and sounds, most of us simply cannot create these assets. I try to take content that is generally available without restrictions.
--- Quote ---Is it okay to use the self-made assets of other people’s fangames?
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I would never and especially not without permission. Assets can be hard to find and I'd like to shamelessly plug this thread which I still update fairly regularly with new assets freely available to any maker. There's no excuse for generic brown blocks anymore.
--- Quote ---To what extent (if any) are quality fangames not getting attention they deserve?
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I think there are a ton of good fangames that get no play. I think that makers with established reputations get a lot more leniency and attention for their releases. I think we could do with a 'game of the week' promotion on delfruit similar to the streamer of the month in order to push some of the lesser known but quality games.
--- Quote ---To what extent (if any) are fangame creators limiting their creative growth as opposed to making freeware games for a bigger, more general audience?
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I think think this is really much of a concern. We're all here because we love fangames. There's nothing stopping anyone from branching out.
klazen108:
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---How much appreciation and support (if any) do fangame creators deserve, and are they currently getting enough?
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In general I feel the same way as the other guys in the thread so far, no one is entitled to any appreciation and support. As someone who's been involved in making a few fangames, I don't feel like I deserve any kind of special recognition for doing so, I just had fun doing it! If you're making a fangame (or really, anything) because you want public adoration, 99 out of 100 times you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---Is it okay to heavily criticize people’s fangames that they made on their own time for everyone to enjoy?
How much patience and forgiveness (if any) should fangame streamers and players be expected to have?
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I believe it's ok for anyone to do whatever they want. You want to make a "happil medley" style fangame because that's what you enjoy? That's your right, you should be able to. Are you playing a "happil medley" style game and hate it? I don't expect you to bottle your feelings and force yourself to pretend you enjoy it. And you can insert whatever genre you want into those quotes, because for every style of game that someone hates, there actually is someone out there who liked it. Sometimes games are heavily railed on-stream, and the opinions of the chat are often just a mirror of the streamer, and so it kinda blows out of control. Sometimes I wish that streamers would be willing to give a game more of a chance, but I certainly don't expect anyone to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've experienced my fair share of being criticized, but I don't hold a grudge against people for that. Either they had my best interests at heart, and have helped me grow, and so I'm very appreciative; or they just wanted to shit on me and therefore their opinion didn't matter to begin with :)
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---What is the right balance of encouraging quality fangames while not scaring off potentially good creators?
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This goes back to my statement above - do what you want to do. If you want to throw together some screens in jtool and release it a couple of days later, go for it. If you want to sit down and plan a storyboard for your game on paper for months before you even open gamemaker, sure! The wiki isn't a zero-sum game; just because someone releases a short needle game it doesn't mean that the slot that an adventure game could have gone in is full now. As far as I'm concerned, all fangames of all types are welcome.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent can you be proud of a fangame that heavily uses other people’s content? (spook jam, medleys, and in general using music+sprites+sounds made by others)
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As I've participated in medley projects before I don't think I can give a non-biased opinion here, so I'll leave that one to others.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---Is it okay to use the self-made assets of other people’s fangames?
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Someone has used one of my self-made assets before, and I'm always releasing code and tutorials to the community, so I feel like I can speak on this point. In my opinion, we grow stronger as a community by pooling together resources and combining them in different ways. When I see things I've made being used by other people, I feel far more proud in those moments than when I see people playing my games. We are constantly borrowing resources from other projects, both commercial and non-commercial, and in my opinion it's a form of praise to want to use something someone else has made.
That being said, if you are taking something someone else has made and trying to play it off as something you made, then you're kinda a scumbag :) Credit where credit is due.
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent (if any) are quality fangames not getting attention they deserve?
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I don't think any game deserves attention, it's not an intrinsic property. A game gets attention because the people giving it attention wanted to. If there were people that wanted to give the unrecognized games attention, then they would be getting it. Of course there are games that I wish were more popular, but I'm not about to start streaming and make them popular, so I have to accept things for how they are!
--- Quote from: patrickgh3 on November 25, 2016, 01:27:39 PM ---To what extent (if any) are fangame creators limiting their creative growth as opposed to making freeware games for a bigger, more general audience?
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Well, I guess it really depends on what you personally as a person want to get out of this. I make fangames as a side hobby, as I already have a secure job in a programming field. However, I was able to leverage some of my experience as talking points in interviews recently, and it always makes for good conversation, so that's been neat. If you are aiming for a strong resume then it's probably good to make some fangames and then move along, because GameMaker experience is not going to land you a job.
That being said, I think that the fangame community is great because I've never seen another place where so many game makers and players have come together with such transparency. Games come out daily, there's always a stream online, commentary flows constantly. The growth potential for an aspiring developer here is incredibly high, higher than anywhere else I could think of, so in my opinion, being active in this community is in no way a waste of time. There's plenty to be learned about being a creator than just the toolset you use.
patrickgh3:
This is a reality check for me. Over the past month or two I subconsciously built up this entitlement and expectation of praise, maybe because I got too emotionally invested in Spook jam, and maybe other reasons too. My motivation for making fangames shifted to something wrong and unhealthy. I've been reconciling my feelings based on what you guys said, and I hope to be out of this funk and have a better attitude toward things soon. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses, they are all really helpful to me. (The thread is still open)
dopaminecowboy:
I just want to give a quick, broad response. I think much of it has been said anyway.
When we make something, of course we want people to like it. I want that very badly. But once it's out there, it belongs to the player. They will do, feel, or say whatever they want about it and there's nothing we can do. That is an essential part of the creative process. Every player is different and every creator processes criticism differently. It is very hard to expect anything when it comes to that.
Releasing something you've made is a risk. It is hugely vulnerable. You can no longer control what happens to it, and I think that is, in part, why so many games go private.
However, giving your game (your time, your idea, your effort) to the players is a healthy transition, and for better or for worse it is eventually purgative. Later you can look back at everything you've done, forgetting the criticisms and just remembering where you were and what you put into it -- and that you did something with your time on earth.
That's all you can do.
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