Fangames > Game Design

Mega Avoidance!! How to make it not too dificult/tedious?

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Kyir:
Rainbow Miku is pretty bad already when it comes to length, let alone almost doubling it.

BaronBlade:
Besides, Rainbow Miku has something to alleviate the length: a huge health bar. You really would need either health or intermediate saves for this idea to be anything but a colossal failure. I think with saves you could get away with 50 minutes, depending on how many you put in.

OhNoezEinPandy:
Create the avoidance and beat it yourself. I am sure you will notice your design problems and find fixes for that.

If you do not want to play it yourself to see if it is ridicilious, don't create it in the first place.

Tamatou:
Thank you for the advice so far.
I still have a long way to go until I get there. This is pretty much at the end of the game. I did however start working on it in advance a little bit.
Finding 100 songs is the smallest problem. As for the attack patterns I have plenty of ideas. Will some be similar to others? Probably. I haven't completly planned this trough yet. But there will be alot more stuff than just cherries. On some songs the room will darken, the kid will change size, screen will flip, water physics, amongst other things.

The reason I don't like HP in avoidances is because I don't really get a strong sense of accomplishment when getting hit alot and still beating it.

Maybe I'll have the player choose the lengh at the beginning of the avoidance [25, 50 or 100]. 25 Songs would equal about 13 minutes (meteor stream lengh) as someone who really enjoyed meteor stream I think that would be bearable. Since the songs are selected at random there would be some variety.

Overall the game has 2 regular Stages with bosses at the end (about as difficult as BLB1)
Then 5 "minigames" representing different genres (not much harder than what came befor)
Followed by a nightmare version of stage 1, a boss, a labyrint like stage, another boss (about Kamilia 2 Stage 2-3 difficult) and finally a final stage with the mega avoidance and the final bosses (planned to be about solgryn level difficult)

Derf:
I think this is really cool and unique idea, but the problem with cool ideas is they don't always translate to real life and retain their novelty. I'm not trying to dissuade you from the idea, I'd actually really like to see it completed, but I though I'd give you some food for thought in regards to my experiences with a similar idea and avoidances in general:

I once toyed with the idea of an hour long avoidance fight. And I ran into many of the problems people here are suggesting: struggling to retain the player's interest or effort, making it interesting while also easily readable so people don't get insta-killed every new attack, etc. I eventually settled on a system whereby the player has infinite health points and at the end they get a score based on how many times they got hit. I ended up scrapping the whole thing because I realised that even when I only had to play through it once, and even though I found parts of it cool, I could barely stay interested through the 10 minutes I had roughly programmed, let alone another 50.

I think the problem is that I simply don't like avoidances at all, no matter how flashy or interesting. And I share that sentiment with many other IWBTG players. For me, when I've spent a lot of time and effort beating a game's platforming, to then be halted from completing the game, or even moving on, because of a boss or avoidance that is arbitrarily harder than what has preceded (and probably what will succeed) is a huge kick to my garden furniture. Now not everyone is the same. A lot of people like challenging bosses and avoidances and there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks. But what you probably need to consider is that now you've made it public you're going to include a 50 (or at the least 25 minute avoidance, which to me is still absurd) in your fangame, you drastically limit the amount of people who will play and complete the game.

Now this might not be a concern to you -- and that's totally fair -- but this is something that not only requires the player to like avoidances, it requires them to love them and be good at them and have a lot of patience. Suddenly it all stacks up and then you see that the pool of people who will complete your game will be absolutely minuscule -- not to mention the fact that some people might waive on playing the game altogether because they don't want to be stopped arbitrarily by something like this. Choosing the skill level required to beat your game is always a tough point of production because it will always push certain people away, too easy and people don't want to waste their time, too hard and people don't want to waste their time etc. So it's usually a balance of what kinda of skill range you want people to be to play your game. A common way of getting around this is having the game itself be of average difficulty, but the secrets and extra stage tough as nails. You could consider putting the avoidance in its own extra stage, or letting people skip it at the cost of a "True ending" screen which is for bragging rights only etc.

Again, I don't want to be paternalistic, and I actually want to see this idea fleshed out even though I think it needs more revisions (TJ had some good suggestions) to really be feasible. I just would hate for you to put a lot of effort into your game (especially since I thought the first installment was relatively charming) to have people turned away by such an insane idea*.










*Insane in both the bad and good way! :~)

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