I Wanna Community

Fangames => Gameplay & Discussion => Topic started by: tehjman1993 on February 08, 2015, 07:10:54 PM

Title: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 08, 2015, 07:10:54 PM
Hello everyone,

Klazen, with the help of myself and patrickgh3, have created a site that is essentially the fangame wiki, but with add-ons.

www.delicious-fruit.com

This site, first and foremost, pulls all the games from the wiki and puts it into one convenient site, loaded with the game name, creator name, and download link. This game is then allowed to be reviewed by anyone who has an account on the site. Ratings come in two flavors - "fun" and difficulty. These ratings are averaged with other user's ratings for a total rating.

So what's special about it? What are the features? Well, here's a list!

Fangame ratings of both "fun" and difficulty!
Ability to sort fangames by fun/difficulty ratings!
Free account signup!
Post your own review for the world to see!
Every account can be linked to a Twitch, YouTube, Twitter, or Nico page!
You can track what games you have rated, what games you have favorited, and what games you have completed, all under one profile!
Screenshots of the game may be available! (if they are submitted by users)
A fresh take on an old way of sorting fangames!
Ability to search for games by name AND by author!

We are working out bugs as this is largely a work-in-progress. The ratings will seem wonky for each individual game until there are a minimum of 15 reviews, where the average will start to even out.
If you have any bug reporting to do on the site, you can post here or preferably click the report button the site!

We hope you enjoy it!

-Klazen108 and TJ
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: OhNoezEinPandy on February 09, 2015, 03:06:36 AM
This is a pretty big project guys which could technically require an insane amount of administrative monitoring to keep it free of complete trolling.

I just want to ask everyone who participates in reviewing to write honest reviews. And please do not reflect on a game if you are still salty about it due to playing it directly before.

Thank you Klazen, TJ and Patrick!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Swordslinger on February 09, 2015, 03:52:11 AM
This is something that me personally would use to a very minimum, the reviews and all that are a nice little feature, I hope the interface gets improved though, it looks a bit bland and plain. That's just my opinion however.

Though if i were to write a review, knowing my negative thoughts on, some, games, I would probably get yelled off of the page instantly.

Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Stepcore on February 09, 2015, 04:41:29 AM
This is pretty cool. Will definitely be using.

Would also be cool if people could not review their own game or post troll reviews, but maybe that's just me.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on February 09, 2015, 09:21:28 AM
I saw that UpRising's in there. I know I can't review my own stuff, but is it okay for me to put the screenshots from the thread I made here on that page?

Also, if I may suggest something, maybe have a column on the fangame list stating whether the game is complete or not? Like "Completed", "In Progress", "Tech Demo", "Cancelled"?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 09, 2015, 01:52:49 PM
I saw that UpRising's in there. I know I can't review my own stuff, but is it okay for me to put the screenshots from the thread I made here on that page?

Also, if I may suggest something, maybe have a column on the fangame list stating whether the game is complete or not? Like "Completed", "In Progress", "Tech Demo", "Cancelled"?

You can post/screenshot/review anything you would like. There are no restrictions on that. All screenshots are approved by a moderator before they are public. We may consider different "fangame" in progress/completed/etc. categories in the near future after we clean up some of the site. Thanks!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on February 09, 2015, 02:18:48 PM
I saw that UpRising's in there. I know I can't review my own stuff, but is it okay for me to put the screenshots from the thread I made here on that page?

Also, if I may suggest something, maybe have a column on the fangame list stating whether the game is complete or not? Like "Completed", "In Progress", "Tech Demo", "Cancelled"?

You can post/screenshot/review anything you would like. There are no restrictions on that. All screenshots are approved by a moderator before they are public. We may consider different "fangame" in progress/completed/etc. categories in the near future after we clean up some of the site. Thanks!

Oh neat. ^^

This is pretty cool. Will definitely be using.

Would also be cool if people could not review their own game or post troll reviews, but maybe that's just me.

Did you notice Kyir giving all his games a 10 rating too? :P
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 09, 2015, 02:23:53 PM
The goal is for after 15 or more reviews, the "average" review will be at a place where most of the community agrees with it. Of course, you will get fangame makers that give their own game a 10/10 and give other games extreme reviews (either negative or positive) that really sway the initial average. These reviews won't affect the average much after we receive more data/reviews, so it will even itself out!

Please note: If you think you can make multiple accounts to boost/destroy a game's rating, you're going to be permanently IP banned. We can see all of this on the backend of the site, so please be respectful. We do not wish to ban this service to anyone, as it is meant to help the community.

One last note: A BIG thank you to everyone who has contributed so far! Klazen and I will continue to improve upon the site as much as we can. If you want to help contribute to a hopefully great website for fangames, the best you can do is honestly review any game you're comfortable reviewing, uploading screenshots, and reporting any comments/games that are inappropriate and/or do not belong. Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on February 09, 2015, 03:50:59 PM
While I did review one of my own games, at least I tried to be honest with it  :atkWaifu:


Also, I think it would be a good idea to add a section with games not on the actual wiki (no links to them), just so there's proof they have existed (and also to add them to your favorites and/or clear list if you have played/beaten them).
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on February 09, 2015, 03:52:33 PM
I think it would be a good idea to add a section with games not on the actual wiki (no links to them), just so there's proof they have existed (and also to add them to your favorites and/or clear list if you have played/beaten them).

I agree with this.

I tried finding all the games I cleared on the website, but couldn't find the Blow Game Trilogy or Get the Yellow Star, plus others.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Shinytyphlosion on February 09, 2015, 06:32:42 PM
On the newest fangame chart I think you switched Difficulty and Rating.  Should be Rating then Difficulty, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 09, 2015, 10:08:11 PM
Also, I think it would be a good idea to add a section with games not on the actual wiki (no links to them), just so there's proof they have existed (and also to add them to your favorites and/or clear list if you have played/beaten them).

On the home page there's a "Submit Game" link (only visible when logged in), you can submit a game there to add it to the database. We're not accepting links using this method, to respect creators wishes who want their game to not be available. If you want your game to be available with a download please submit it to the wiki, our system will pick it up from there and copy it over. That being said please feel free to add as many games as you want using our system!

I hope the interface gets improved though, it looks a bit bland and plain.

I'll admit I'm not an artist, I'm more concerned with making things work, I only work on the beauty aspect of it when someone yells at how bad my mockups are :Kappa: If anyone has HTML/CSS talent, and would like to help make the site look nicer, please get in contact with me!

Would also be cool if people could not review their own game or post troll reviews, but maybe that's just me.

As of now, there's no clear way to tell which accounts made which games. We're planning on implementing a "claim" system at a later point, where you can claim games you made and we manually link them to your account; we can revisit this issue then.

On the topic of trolls, every review submitted to the site is examined by an administrator, and we're working hard to ensure that trolls are stopped in their tracks. We're banning obvious fakes and removing off-topic/offensive reviews, and you can help us by reporting them if you find we've missed one (that includes games and screenshots too!). Don't report a review just because you disagree with it though - everyone's entitled to their opinion!

Glad to see interest in this little project, and stay tuned, because we're working daily to add all the features you guys have requested - after all, the site is for you!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 09, 2015, 10:10:07 PM
On the newest fangame chart I think you switched Difficulty and Rating.  Should be Rating then Difficulty, not the other way around.

Thanks for the report, that should be fixed now!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: pieceofcheese87 on February 09, 2015, 11:33:01 PM
You guys did an awesome job on this website, I hope it grows and expands in the future.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: thebmxbandit11 on February 10, 2015, 06:15:45 AM
awesome site! Being able to see what type of game you are downloading before playing it is gonna be great :p
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: ZebraGo on February 10, 2015, 07:10:37 AM
This is actually really cool. Looking forward to this project.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: petsson12 on February 10, 2015, 04:49:19 PM
Is it allowed to submit games that I don't know the creator of? For example, dark blue, yellow star etc.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 10, 2015, 10:04:11 PM
Is it allowed to submit games that I don't know the creator of? For example, dark blue, yellow star etc.

(click to show/hide)

Games that are not on del-fruit nor the wiki need to be submitted by the owner/producer of the game. We will not accept games that have been submitted by an outside source. We need the creator's permission to do so. Some exceptions are made.

Edit: I should clarify that I am talking about obtaining the game - the download. Having the game itself up there with no download is fine.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: SandboxMagician on February 11, 2015, 10:26:33 AM
I'm loving this!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 11, 2015, 02:06:24 PM
Small update to the site today! (aside from all the bug reports I've been silently handling :P )

We now support "Advanced Search"! Check it out:
(click to show/hide)

You can now search by Name, Author, Rating Range, Difficulty Range, and (if you're logged in) whether or not you've cleared the game! I've added an "Advanced..." button next to the search bar at the top of every page, so you can easily access it.

If you have any other parameters you'd like to be able to search by, post your suggestions here!

P.S. We passed 350 reviews today, you guys are awesome! Keep it up!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on February 11, 2015, 04:07:37 PM
Would be neat to have a feature where people could add the current records to game, though I'm not sure how much extra work that would be.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 11, 2015, 05:53:45 PM
Would be neat to have a feature where people could add the current records to game, though I'm not sure how much extra work that would be.

I was going to bring this up in the near future when we have more of the site's functionality down and more reviews come pouring in. The community has reacted wonderfully to the current features we have, and have given us a ton of ideas to improve and redesign the site.

Current records are being considered, but this is an entirely new issue that is a little harder to tackle than meets the eye. I'll see what I can do, thanks!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: thebmxbandit11 on February 11, 2015, 08:03:19 PM
When people submit screenshots can we suggest that it be of the first screen, so we can get an idea of what the game is like instead of just a title screen which doesn't really show anything about the game.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 11, 2015, 10:49:28 PM
When people submit screenshots can we suggest that it be of the first screen, so we can get an idea of what the game is like instead of just a title screen which doesn't really show anything about the game.

First screens aren't really an indicator of a game, either. I, along with a few others, were throwing up a lot of title screens just so an image appears when that game is selected rather than the "no screenshot" image. If people would contribute more screenshots of the game, such as the first screen and beyond, then that's perfectly fine. Title cards are, in my opinion, the game at a very, very brief glance (and so there's SOMETHING).
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: thebmxbandit11 on February 12, 2015, 12:40:00 AM
I just think on the submit screenshot page there should be a little bit of text saying something like "please upload a screenshot that gives you an idea of what the game is like." 

I am not trying to say uploading the title is bad,  I think it should maybe be one of the shots.

Looking at this for example:
(click to show/hide)
really doesn't give you any idea what the game is

where this
(click to show/hide)
gives you an idea of what the game is like because just seeing the title I'd have no idea what sort of game it is or how to recognize it if I have seen someone play it before, but never knew the title.

If you only have a screenshot of the title handy that's fine, but I mainly think when you upload a screenshot it should say something to nudge people to upload something that shows what you can expect in the game.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Cortex on February 14, 2015, 06:14:41 PM
Would it be appreciated or considered "spoilers" if I uploaded screenshots showing where the secrets in a game are?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 14, 2015, 06:17:34 PM
Would it be appreciated or considered "spoilers" if I uploaded screenshots showing where the secrets in a game are?

You are allowed to upload any screenshots of the game, whether its the title screen, a regular screen, a secret screen, it doesn't matter. You can put in the description of your screenshot "this is a secret" or something if you'd like.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 26, 2015, 06:44:43 PM
The Delicious Fruit Tag System is now live! Add tags like "Needle" "Trap" and "Miku" to games, and search by tag to easily find all games in certain genres! Read more here! (http://delicious-fruit.com/news.php?id=5)

(http://i.imgur.com/ePLOxxY.png)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on February 26, 2015, 07:30:52 PM
I just noticed the added "Reviews" tag on profiles, which I like. There is a problem, though...
I'll use my own Reviews page as an example.

(http://i.imgur.com/z6GOOG8.png)

Wouldn't it be useful to include the game name on this page, or possibly merge the Ratings and Reviews pages?

Sure, with someone like myself who's only done 3 reviews, a quick back and forth makes it clear which review is for which game, but some people like Xplayer and Para review a lot of games, so this wouldn't be viable.

EDIT: I also noticed clicking a game from a user's clear list just reloads their profile page for whatever reason?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 26, 2015, 09:02:57 PM
Wouldn't it be useful to include the game name on this page, or possibly merge the Ratings and Reviews pages?

...

EDIT: I also noticed clicking a game from a user's clear list just reloads their profile page for whatever reason?

I'm dumb :wixSanic:

Both of those should be fixed now. I'm trying to beef up the profile pages, they should be something everyone is excited to fill out and share! Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks for taking the time to look over it and find out that I can't code :Kappa:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kryshtal on March 16, 2015, 10:08:43 PM
I found a bug.
If you make a big spoiler section it won't show up correctly. It doesn't stretch the box as it would on a normal review.

http://delicious-fruit.com/ratings/game_details.php?id=11689

And I really like the site, doing my best to help fill things up.  :atkHappy:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on March 18, 2015, 08:52:02 PM
Thanks for the bug report Kryshtal! I've updated the code to properly expand the review after you reveal a spoiler if it needs it.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: LudorExperiens on March 20, 2015, 09:56:46 PM
How does the update system work?

Especially for fangames that are incomplete but being worked on, it is really tough to edit the download link again and again, I guess.

Can the author request edit rights for the download link, or should a forum thread be linked then (which makes the author capable of indirectly editing the download link)?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on March 23, 2015, 08:25:00 PM
All the download links point back to the Fangame Wiki (http://www21.atwiki.jp/iwannabethewiki/pages/283.html). If you've posted your game there, and you update it there, then delicious fruit will have the correct download link as well. I like to think of the site as an extension of the wiki, instead of a replacement.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Washijyazo on April 05, 2015, 10:40:57 AM
A question: in review rules it says "When rating a game, we ask that you have cleared it first (or at least given it a fair attempt) before reviewing.", while lot of users are posting only ratings, with no words to back it up. So, is it allowed to rate without reviewing or is it not?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 05, 2015, 12:32:49 PM
A question: in review rules it says "When rating a game, we ask that you have cleared it first (or at least given it a fair attempt) before reviewing.", while lot of users are posting only ratings, with no words to back it up. So, is it allowed to rate without reviewing or is it not?

Well, we can ask things that the community may or may not adhere to. We ask that before you give a game any rating, text review, difficulty scale, etc., you should have played through the game to a certain extent, unless it is unbeatable/impossible. Does this mean that reviewers will actually follow this? Probably not.

Just use your best judgment. We strongly encourage that you beat the game (or at least play through a majority of it) before touching the rating/review button.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Washijyazo on April 05, 2015, 02:15:19 PM
A question: in review rules it says "When rating a game, we ask that you have cleared it first (or at least given it a fair attempt) before reviewing.", while lot of users are posting only ratings, with no words to back it up. So, is it allowed to rate without reviewing or is it not?

Well, we can ask things that the community may or may not adhere to. We ask that before you give a game any rating, text review, difficulty scale, etc., you should have played through the game to a certain extent, unless it is unbeatable/impossible. Does this mean that reviewers will actually follow this? Probably not.

Just use your best judgment. We strongly encourage that you beat the game (or at least play through a majority of it) before touching the rating/review button.
My fault, I misinterpreted that line. I don't know how that happened, but I mistook the "clearing" as "justifying your rating (in the form of review)" while it was simply "to finish the game", wasn't it. Anyway, what I wanted to know was whether you can rate a game without writing a review for it.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 05, 2015, 07:45:05 PM
A question: in review rules it says "When rating a game, we ask that you have cleared it first (or at least given it a fair attempt) before reviewing.", while lot of users are posting only ratings, with no words to back it up. So, is it allowed to rate without reviewing or is it not?

Well, we can ask things that the community may or may not adhere to. We ask that before you give a game any rating, text review, difficulty scale, etc., you should have played through the game to a certain extent, unless it is unbeatable/impossible. Does this mean that reviewers will actually follow this? Probably not.

Just use your best judgment. We strongly encourage that you beat the game (or at least play through a majority of it) before touching the rating/review button.
My fault, I misinterpreted that line. I don't know how that happened, but I mistook the "clearing" as "justifying your rating (in the form of review)" while it was simply "to finish the game", wasn't it. Anyway, what I wanted to know was whether you can rate a game without writing a review for it.

Yes, you are correct. You don't have to finish a game to review it, but it helps your review hold some merit to it :)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on April 05, 2015, 08:40:56 PM
Yeah, you don't have to write a text review to go along with a rating if you don't want to; every part of the rating system is independent. You can add only tags, or review & tags with no ratings, or just difficulty & review with no rating, etc... You can add anything you'd like without feeling pressured to do the other sections. For instance, I like to go through and tag games that I know fit certain tags, but I don't rate them because I've only beaten like 5 fangames :Kappa:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WrathofAnubis on April 24, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
I've noticed that all the comments in screenshots have disappeared, is this an intended thing, or a bug?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 24, 2015, 06:32:18 PM
I've noticed that all the comments in screenshots have disappeared, is this an intended thing, or a bug?

This was actually intended. After some internal discussion and some complaints from users, we have removed this feature. Unfortunately, this feature was being abused by many members of the community as a way to attack a game, such as labeling a screenshot as "Oh yay, more AIDS" or "Great (not) background." This system was never intended to hurt a game's reputation, as we disallow any "attacking" on games for obvious reasons. This feature may be limited/brought back in the future. For now, however, the system will now be screenshot-only with no text present.

Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on April 25, 2015, 01:54:05 AM
A screenshot-related question, actually
Why do they show up in a random order?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 25, 2015, 08:09:36 AM
A screenshot-related question, actually
Why do they show up in a random order?

They appear in the order that they were submitted/accepted. Someone who submits a boss screenshot before anyone else will see that screenshot appear first, even if someone submits a title card screenshot a day later.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on April 25, 2015, 08:17:41 AM
I've definitely had screenshots show up in different orders before...
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 25, 2015, 02:41:31 PM
I've definitely had screenshots show up in different orders before...

Really? I'd have to talk to Klazen about that. Could it possibly be because you checked back at prior screenshots when more were added? When Klazen is around I'll inquire about it. Thanks, 128!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on April 30, 2015, 01:30:56 PM
I found this while looking for a hard game to play.
(http://i.imgur.com/PyuJsYF.png)

I think it's not just me the only who thinks there are tons of harder games than Color. I don't know if you guys are already trying to moderate ratings and all that stuff (I believe you do) but I just wanted you to know it.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: pieceofcheese87 on April 30, 2015, 02:06:26 PM
I found this while looking for a hard game to play.
(http://i.imgur.com/PyuJsYF.png)

I think it's not just me the only who thinks there are tons of harder games than Color. I don't know if you guys are already trying to moderate ratings and all that stuff (I believe you do) but I just wanted you to know it.

just to let you know, that game is i wanna color, not i wanna be the color. and you can report reviews if you have a problem with them. no need to post it here.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Swordslinger on April 30, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
I am pretty sure he knows that piece, i think both Jgb and Myself know who Belief actually is, hes like Lie and the L Games, and wow, that game is no where near impossible, lol.

Really though, sorry to say, it is my biggest complaint about the site and it's something that can't even be fixed, is just some of the reviews, not all of them, make just no sense to me, no offense intended but some just make me scratch my head haha (Sadly it's something i think everyone is aware about as well). Also no Jgb, you aren't the only one.

The site itself is good and i like it to an extent don't get me wrong, it's just the reviews on it, just to clarify.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: kilgour22 on May 01, 2015, 02:04:37 PM
Perhaps there could be an FAQ section for DelFruit in a future update, in case people have any questions relating to things like rating their own games, rating in general, adding screenshots, tagging games, etc.?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Joni on May 04, 2015, 01:06:30 AM
If we had a sufficiently large amount of submitted reviews we could actually include something that does not include reviews that are too far away from the average rating of the game. (Games with too few reviews would simply not have a rating then).
Another solution would be to include minimum number of reviews in the advanced search tab as a parameter.

Nonetheless both only work if there is a sufficiently large amount of reviews submitted. Especially for people that are into very hard games, this will not make things better at all..
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on May 04, 2015, 02:05:05 PM
If we had a sufficiently large amount of submitted reviews we could actually include something that does not include reviews that are too far away from the average rating of the game. (Games with too few reviews would simply not have a rating then).
Another solution would be to include minimum number of reviews in the advanced search tab as a parameter.

Nonetheless both only work if there is a sufficiently large amount of reviews submitted. Especially for people that are into very hard games, this will not make things better at all..

In statistics, a general rule of thumb is getting around 15 people to respond to something before you can start "guessing" a community rating. Of course, with less than that number, reviews will be slightly tilted in one way or another due to the average not being a great measure of central tendency. You can contribute by submitting honest reviews and encouraging others to do the same. Saying that this will not make things better at all is simply ridiculous, as a review system needs to start somewhere. It continues to grow every day with screenshots, ratings, and reviews. Setting a minimum does more harm than good, as it would censor those that have reviewed a less popular game.

Perhaps there could be an FAQ section for DelFruit in a future update, in case people have any questions relating to things like rating their own games, rating in general, adding screenshots, tagging games, etc.?

We are not willing to tell creators that they cannot review their own game. Yes, it is common courtesy to do so. No, we are not restricting any user unless ToS are breached. A FAQ based on rating in general/adding screenshot/etc is something I'd most certainly consider for the future.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on May 04, 2015, 11:33:25 PM
In statistics

Uh oh, you guys have done it now. TJ's bringing out the big guns :Kappa:

also... (as of may 4)
(http://i.imgur.com/ryWbzyU.png)

Looks like things are working out, and I didn't even have to remove any reviews ;)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Aelya on May 05, 2015, 07:58:20 AM
i appreciate author comments tbh, also it's definitely better than nothing
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Joni on May 06, 2015, 01:50:46 PM
If we had a sufficiently large amount of submitted reviews we could actually include something that does not include reviews that are too far away from the average rating of the game. (Games with too few reviews would simply not have a rating then).
Another solution would be to include minimum number of reviews in the advanced search tab as a parameter.

Nonetheless both only work if there is a sufficiently large amount of reviews submitted. Especially for people that are into very hard games, this will not make things better at all..

In statistics, a general rule of thumb is getting around 15 people to respond to something before you can start "guessing" a community rating. Of course, with less than that number, reviews will be slightly tilted in one way or another due to the average not being a great measure of central tendency. You can contribute by submitting honest reviews and encouraging others to do the same. Saying that this will not make things better at all is simply ridiculous, as a review system needs to start somewhere. It continues to grow every day with screenshots, ratings, and reviews. Setting a minimum does more harm than good, as it would censor those that have reviewed a less popular game.
I agree that having a strict minimum for required reviews is not a good thing. However I would like to be able to search the database for games with a minimum of n submitted reviews to get a list that consists of games that a somewhat larger amount of people agree on being good. This cannot do any harm as an option in advanced search, as people can just neglect to use it.

Also I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I didnt want to say that submitting more reviews would make things worse for people into harder games but implementing what I wrote above would.

Also: One of the problems when dealing with the wiki has always been broken links.. Is there any consensus on how to deal with that?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on May 06, 2015, 02:25:20 PM
Also: One of the problems when dealing with the wiki has always been broken links.. Is there any consensus on how to deal with that?

Our links for the games go straight to the wiki; there's no way to confirm if a link still works other than by trying it. If a link is broken you can report the game to tell us to remove the link (and people often do!) - then you can do an advanced search with 'Require Download Link' to find games you can download.

I'll look into including review count as a parameter in the advanced search, but that code is getting pretty unwiedly as it is :P
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on May 06, 2015, 03:46:05 PM
It seems that, whenever I click on the subcategory box to see the list of each game that is in that subcategory, it takes me straight to the full fangame list.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on May 07, 2015, 12:50:24 AM
Sorry about that! I've fixed the issue.

I had to rework the search query recently, turns out we have so much information in the database that I had to optimize the query to get it to even run... Guess I broke it a little bit! :D
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Joni on May 07, 2015, 01:45:58 AM
Also: One of the problems when dealing with the wiki has always been broken links.. Is there any consensus on how to deal with that?

Our links for the games go straight to the wiki; there's no way to confirm if a link still works other than by trying it. If a link is broken you can report the game to tell us to remove the link (and people often do!) - then you can do an advanced search with 'Require Download Link' to find games you can download.

I'll look into including review count as a parameter in the advanced search, but that code is getting pretty unwiedly as it is :P
I recall reading something like "delicious fruit is not meant to replace the wiki", so I just wanted to make sure what the general policy for reuploads is supposed to be.. I.E. should users post links to reuploads in the reviews if the download link doesnt work anymore?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on May 07, 2015, 09:37:57 AM
No, you should never post a link to a game on delfruit unless you're the author. If you're the author, you should put it in the wiki and we'll pick it up from there, that's the easiest solution. If you're not the author, then you need to ask the author to do that for you. If the author isn't reachable/isn't around anymore, then there's not really anything you can do :atkCry: but we're not accepting link submissions from anyone but the original author, to prevent distribution of private games.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Joni on May 07, 2015, 10:41:31 AM
Yeah that's kind of what I expected, thought I'd ask nonetheless.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on July 14, 2015, 05:00:35 PM
Just a friendly reminder - we do not accept inappropriate names on the site. Unfortunately I need to remind everyone that if you are trying to be offensive, you will be banned. We've had a few problems here and there with some "new" members posting troll reviews and creating inappropriate account names.

Also a reminder to report any review/account that is purposely being offensive, trolling, or otherwise not using the site for its intended use. We look into every report, and helps us review situations and take action in a short amount of time.

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on July 15, 2015, 10:57:41 AM
Small little thing that is most likely unimportant:

(http://s1.postimg.org/tenrt2icv/Screenshot_2015_07_15_08_55_19.png)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on July 19, 2015, 09:59:31 PM
Hello everyone,

I just wanted to announce a few things that some of the more active members on delicious-fruit have been asking about. I'll give you our opinion/decisions topic-by-topic:

Regarding reviews of your own game

You are allowed to review your own game. We had many reports come in on multiple game makers stating that "they shouldn't review their own game." At delicious-fruit, we are not willing to ban anyone from reviewing any game, unless they have explicitly broken the Terms of Service (harassment is an example). In fact, game makers are typically harsher towards their own games than the majority of the community, with a few exceptions! All in all, game makers should not feel afraid to review their own game. Any report against that individual will not yield any consequences. For those that report game makers: please do not report them. You may not agree with it, but this is how we wish to run the site.

Exceedingly high/low reviews of certain games

There have been a number of reports towards individuals that have rated games as low as 0.5 and as high as a perfect 10, stating that it "must be" a troll review. Once again, similar to the previous topic, this is something that you may not agree with. However, these individuals that rate extremely high/low may have good reason to do so. Even if they do not have a good reason to do so, they are allowed to cast their vote any way they wish. This is not violating the ToS in any manner. We only intervene in these reviews if they personally attack others.

Compare it to this: You eat at a restaurant, and the food was absolutely terrible. The service was terrible. The atmosphere was atrocious. You are so offended, that you decide to head to a popular review site (such as Yelp) to review this restaurant as "0/5, wouldn't go there if it was the last place on Earth." But just the other day, another individual sat in the same spot you just did and ate a wonderful meal, had a great waiter/waitress, and enjoyed a lovely atmosphere. That individual liked it so much, they felt compelled to give the restaurant a "perfect 5/5, I love this place!" on the same review site. Looking at these two reviews, you would think these two guys/gals ate at completely different establishments! But they didn't, and it happens all the time. This is no different towards fangames, and we wish to embrace this.

Purposely boosting ratings

This ties in closely with the topic just covered, and I received a few complaints regarding certain individuals "boosting" games that they like/made. This is an extremely gray area for moderation, and we have decided that we are not taking action against those that are "suspicious" in boosting ratings (or, in the opposite effect, tanking a rating). Reading this, the average viewer may say "well I'm never using this site again, then!" These rating "boosters" are impossible to confirm as actually boosting (or tanking) anything. We, nor you, can completely determine if someone is purposely giving a game an extremely high/low rating to move it along our average ratings list.

Still worried? Don't be! The power of statistics saves this quite well. Let's take an example:
I make a game called F A T T E R B I R D S, and I give it a 10/10 stating that "it's the best bird game you will ever play."
Now my game is at the top of the review list! My evil plan is working!
But now Klazen comes in and says "I played through this game, and I didn't really like the visuals or any of stage 2 and 3. I'll give it a 5/10."
Uh-oh. Now my game is at a 7.5/10, and plummeted down the rating list. But it's still pretty high above what the "average" community member thinks about the game, right? Wrong.
A 3rd person comes in, World, and he says "I really did not like this game, but music = G O O D, so I give 4/10."
Now my average is a 6.3/10! This is already now much closer to the "majority" of opinions about my game, even though only 2 others have voted so far!
A 4th and 5th person come in and give the game a 5.5/10 and 6/10, respectively. Now the average is 6.1/10, and is incredibly accurate to the majority of voters.

What happens now? Well, my plan had failed. My 10/10 score has done next to nothing to the rating, and the majority will always prevail, no matter what. This is the very basics of statistical averages, and is in full-swing on delicious-fruit. If you truly disagree with someone giving a game a 0/10 or 10/10, you can accurately rate the game yourself to start balancing out the score. Even after 5 reviews, the average will be very close to the "overall" average that the community sees fit. This is just how reviews work! (Note: 5 reviews, on a larger scale, is extremely small. For a community of our size, 5 is sufficient. It is much better to take 15-20 reviews' averages before finding a 'true average' of something.)

Let me know if anyone has any questions about anything I have clarified here. Nothing has been changed, nothing has been updated. We are still the same review site that we have always been.

Thank you,
TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on July 20, 2015, 02:53:04 PM
I think this is the most reasonable policy you could have given the situation.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on July 23, 2015, 06:11:39 AM
As you may have noticed, there are 2 games called I Wanna be the 2.5625 and I wanna be the Extra Jump that have been added recently in Delicious Fruit and they're both impossible (I'm not saying the jumps mentioned are impossible, but they aren't built in the correct way to make them possible in the game).

I had thought of giving them a proper rating but I've realized there's no point in giving them a 100/100 difficulty rating since other people have rated them around 80-90/100 in difficulty and the games won't have a 100/100 difficulty (which is the difficulty rating they MUST have since they're impossible) after I (and people who would also rate it 100/100 in difficulty) post my reviews.

Players who are trying to look for some hard challenge and find games like this will waste hours on a game that is basically impossible and I'm sure they will be really mad when they realize the game is actually impossible and they will shit on the site because the difficulty rating says it isn't impossible when it is.

So, here's what I'd do to prevent this from happening: delete all the impossible games. There's no point in having impossible games in a site made for people who want to have fun playing these games. This way we will also prevent wrong ratings (there's a guy complaining about the 2 corners on I Wanna be the Extra Jump when they don't change anything in difficulty) and dumb ratings in general (mainly from people known as "happil 2 kids" or from just dumb people). I wouldn't delete games like LoveTrap, I Wanna break the Sky Needle, I Wanna challenge the Needle Fight, etc., though, since the impossible parts are in the extra part (which are obviously not required to beat the games).

Also, talking about ratings. People in general will most likely read the rating from a "big guy" first, ignoring the other ones when the "big guy's" rating might be wrong or not appropiate (I won't say names but it's not the first time that this happens). I know there's a "Like this review" button to make a rating more trustworthy, but I suggest adding a "Dislike this review" button since there are lots of reviews which aren't really reviews and most of them are posted by people who clearly have no idea about the game or they haven't beaten or even played the game in some cases.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on July 23, 2015, 10:08:02 AM
I don't think impossible games should be deleted but I do think that there should a difficulty setting that overrides the numerical value and simply says "Impossible". Or an optional disclaimer box that sits above reviews and lists things such as impossible jumps.

I'm kinda down for the dislike this review feature but I also feel like it might be abused somewhat. If there's one thing I've observed about the community at large it's that a large majority of people don't care enough to have their own opinions. There are always and have always been right from the early days, people who gain a following or a notoriety and then dictate opinions to the people who follow them. It's not exclusive to fangames of course. But yeah, I've seen people write some of the most ill-informed and contrived "reviews" lately. It's often a pretty transparent attempt to self-satisfy some calling in them where they want to be viewed as "discerning", but they just come across as if they're slamming games for no reason/in some cases bare-faced lying about features of the game to support their critical analysis. It works the other way too, people putting on rose-tinted glasses for critically acclaimed fangames + fangames their friends made is another issue. But honestly, I just feel like it's always going to happen. And it's more the responsibility of the person to look at the review and realise which ones are myopic and more for entertainment purposes than for the benefit of other people. People will always be their to defend themselves with the impenetrable shield of "but it's subjective, so I can say what I want" without realising that that doesn't mean other people have to take their words seriously or that their criticisms are themselves free from criticism.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on July 23, 2015, 10:39:16 AM
As you may have noticed, there are 2 games called I Wanna be the 2.5625 and I wanna be the Extra Jump that have been added recently in Delicious Fruit and they're both impossible (I'm not saying the jumps mentioned are impossible, but they aren't built in the correct way to make them possible in the game).

I had thought of giving them a proper rating but I've realized there's no point in giving them a 100/100 difficulty rating since other people have rated them around 80-90/100 in difficulty and the games won't have a 100/100 difficulty (which is the difficulty rating they MUST have since they're impossible) after I (and people who would also rate it 100/100 in difficulty) post my reviews.

Players who are trying to look for some hard challenge and find games like this will waste hours on a game that is basically impossible and I'm sure they will be really mad when they realize the game is actually impossible and they will shit on the site because the difficulty rating says it isn't impossible when it is.

So, here's what I'd do to prevent this from happening: delete all the impossible games. There's no point in having impossible games in a site made for people who want to have fun playing these games. This way we will also prevent wrong ratings (there's a guy complaining about the 2 corners on I Wanna be the Extra Jump when they don't change anything in difficulty) and dumb ratings in general (mainly from people known as "happil 2 kids" or from just dumb people). I wouldn't delete games like LoveTrap, I Wanna break the Sky Needle, I Wanna challenge the Needle Fight, etc., though, since the impossible parts are in the extra part (which are obviously not required to beat the games).

Also, talking about ratings. People in general will most likely read the rating from a "big guy" first, ignoring the other ones when the "big guy's" rating might be wrong or not appropiate (I won't say names but it's not the first time that this happens). I know there's a "Like this review" button to make a rating more trustworthy, but I suggest adding a "Dislike this review" button since there are lots of reviews which aren't really reviews and most of them are posted by people who clearly have no idea about the game or they haven't beaten or even played the game in some cases.

Hi JGB,

Klazen and I looked into your suggestion this morning, and we've come up with a solution of how we want to handle this.

Regarding literally IMPOSSIBLE games:

-We are not removing impossible games from the site.
-We are adding a special tag feature, "impossible", to the site. This tag is different colored than the rest.

Impossible games happen from time to time, but they still are games in some way. Because of this, we are not removing them from the site entirely. However, if you are 100% certain a game is impossible, here's what you can do:

-Give the game a 100/100 difficulty rating
-State why it is impossible in your review
-Add the 'impossible' tag to your review

These 3 simple things will help mark the game as impossible for the general community. Concern was raised about "well if someone rates the game 50/100, now the rating will never be 100/100." This is true, however, the average rating isn't necessarily the best one. Although this sounds contradictory to my previous posts, reading individual reviews is a great way to judge a game's content. If I look at this game and 2 out of 3 reviews say it is impossible despite its 90/100 difficulty average, I believe it is safe to assume the game is indeed impossible. The average rating is a good measure, but not perfect. We are not willing to remove the game unless it is by creator request, or for some other unforeseen circumstance.

Please note: Abusing this special "impossible" tag on games that are not impossible (example: Dark Blue) will result in a warning, then subsequently bans and restricted access to reviewing. We are taking this tag seriously.

Regarding a dislike feature:

We will never have a feature that berates someone's opinion. An unpopular opinion, even if it is 100% factual, will be disliked into oblivion. There's a reason Facebook has no dislike feature - to prevent bullying/ganging up on one individual who is not friends with the "popular" community. We do not want our users feeling afraid to post their honest thoughts on a game, so no dislike feature will be added, at any point.

Let me know if you have any questions regarding these decisions! Thanks!
-TJ&Klazen

Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on July 23, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
I'm happy with the decisions. And I understand why you don't wanna add a dislike feature, I was kinda mad only thinking about shit reviews.

Thanks TJ and Klazen! ( •ᴗ•)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on July 23, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
I'm happy with the decisions. And I understand why you don't wanna add a dislike feature, I was kinda mad only thinking about shit reviews.

Thanks TJ and Klazen! ( •ᴗ•)

You're very welcome! We're always looking for ways to improve the site, whether it's a policy change or a new feature! We appreciate all the feedback we've gotten, and hope the community continues to help us improve delicious-fruit!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on August 31, 2015, 10:49:44 PM
Hey everyone! Fresh update for you all!

Delicious-Fruit is now proud to host our monthly "Wannabe of the Month" spotlight! Every month, a randomly selected actively-streaming Wannabe will be given the spotlight for the whole month on the front page of Delicious-Fruit! The site will post a quick bio about you, your stream, and when you are live (real-time updating)! We will always try to ask permission beforehand if you are selected but do not want to be featured, of course.

This will hopefully help newer viewers/community members find some of the best © The Wannabes™® have to offer!

For the month of September, we are happy to announce that Sunbla is our featured Wannabe of the Month! Congratulations, Sun!

As always, we look for feedback about our site. If you think anything needs fixing, tell us! If you have any questions, comments, or even a suggestion for a future event, let us know in this thread!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen

Stay fresh!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: lawatson on September 01, 2015, 12:58:31 AM
The concept of this worries me. It has good intention, but to be honest, as of right now it just sounds like a slightly bigger version of a twitch host. It seems that a similar effect could come from just hosting someone through the fangame marathon channel. Plus, many people already knew about and watched sunbla beforehand, so I would simply like to know if your picks will range to the streamers with less viewers, such as Iginlaj and JGBMaster. Another thing I'd like to know is how well you think the concept will turn out. Most people come to delicious fruit just for the games and the reviews. To be honest, I can imagine that some people will come to the site and completely overlook this feature. I don't mean to make a big assumption, but it is a possible problem, even if occurring on a small scale. I would like to know how you feel about these problems and if you are thinking of a good way to fix them up a bit. I hope to see a more helpful and more practical idea in the future.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 01, 2015, 01:30:59 AM
The concept of this worries me. It has good intention, but to be honest, as of right now it just sounds like a slightly bigger version of a twitch host. It seems that a similar effect could come from just hosting someone through the fangame marathon channel.

The main reason that prompted this is because I got tired of looking at the FGM announcement on delfruit's home page for the past 4 months :Kappa: This isn't some brand new concept that we think will revolutionize the way you think about Hosts™ forever, it's just a fun little idea that we figured could give the news section some fresh content while taking a moment to show off the team members. 

Plus, many people already knew about and watched sunbla beforehand, so I would simply like to know if your picks will range to the streamers with less viewers, such as Iginlaj and JGBMaster.

There's not really a requirement to be picked, but right now we're prioritizing Wannabe team members. There's no official system or bureaucracy that decides how you get picked, we're just starting off easy and we'll work it out as we go along. Sunbla was kind enough to agree to be a sort of pilot test to try out the system, and we're thankful for that!

Another thing I'd like to know is how well you think the concept will turn out. Most people come to delicious fruit just for the games and the reviews. To be honest, I can imagine that some people will come to the site and completely overlook this feature. I don't mean to make a big assumption, but it is a possible problem, even if occurring on a small scale. I would like to know how you feel about these problems and if you are thinking of a good way to fix them up a bit.

Again, I'm not trying to make a big impact here, ya know? If not even one extra viewer shows up due to the spotlight, then was anything lost? The answer is no. Heck, as an example of the value this adds besides directing viewers to the stream, we included Sun & Zero's recommended fangame list, something that maybe not everyone is familiar with. I think that fits pretty dang well with the theme of delfruit. For future Wannabes we may show off some funny highlights, talk about games they've created, show off personal achievements, you name it.

I hope to see a more helpful and more practical idea in the future.

Sorry man, maybe next time.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: lawatson on September 01, 2015, 03:30:23 AM
Alright, I see. Make sure to make the best of it!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on September 01, 2015, 04:36:47 AM
I agree with Lawatson. I'm sure people in this community already know players like Sunbla, Denferok, etc., but I think I'm ok with it as long as the channels (from The Wannabes Twitch team) are randomly selected.

Ok, and here goes my suggestion. I think the highlighted channel should be changed weekly, so we can give more oportunities to other streamers and make new people be better known. Also, there are lots of channels on our team and only 12 of them will be spotlighted every year, which, in my opinion, is kinda unfair.

By the way, should someone make a forum poll to decide if it should be monthly or weekly?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: lawatson on September 01, 2015, 08:48:41 AM
I think weekly should be fine. It allows for faster coverage of all the users while still giving them a large amount of time in the spotlight.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 01, 2015, 10:13:27 AM
I agree with it being changed to weekly and I'd also like to see smaller streamers being featured as well.

I'm not entirely sure where Moose's assertion that it's only upsetting smaller streamers who want to get big fast is coming from, or how they believe we should qualify being deserved of the feature, but I do take their point that big streamers also deserve recognition regardless of whether they're well known. It's important though to still factor that in to how this is approached, I understand that small streamers typically don't stream as much as more popular ones but this is part and parcel of the fact that a smaller fanbase makes it less viable to stream, of course you have to put the effort in but it's a mutual growth. Also this is just a feature, it's not forcing anyone to actually follow these people, it's just helping their exposure, if the individuals truly believe the person featured isn't deserving of their time they need only click off the stream and continue with their day. Not only that but Moose, you seem to think that time devoted is an essential quality someone must reach a certain threshold in in order to be deserving of advertisement but that's just not the way it works. If someone has the charisma and skill and viewer interaction to warrant a large following when they've only been doing it for a month, then it's not about giving them a random boost or letting them get big fast, it's about giving them exposure and letting the people who will appreciate them find them.

But like I said earlier in this post, I do think that big streamers deserve recognition as well, even moreso. Perhaps a good compromise would be to keep the written bio feature as is just for wannabes (though I still think a weekly swap would be cool) but have a daily/weekly updated tickertape/small box underneath saying something like "Looking for something new? Check out: XXXXXXX" and that features the smaller streamers. I'm not necessarily sure how the vetting process for selecting them would go but I do think it would be nice to have a little link to newcomers as well.



Onto a separate suggestion. The main reason I don't use the site honestly is because of the lack of any real discussion interface. I like the site for the most part but I feel as though a stream of one-off reviews is limiting. I'm not suggesting any massive overhaul but it would be nice if there was a tab under every game where people could discuss them like a kind of mini forum thread. I'm not sure whether I think it should be integrated into reviews as I don't think people should have to defend their opinions and it might just lead to harassment. I think it's useful because only a fraction of the games on the website have a forum analogue and it would be useful to be able to ask questions and discuss every game because some Japanese games might have text that doesn't display on computers with English as the default and instead of these games getting downvoted or ignored by the western community, people could post how to progress. For instance one fangame a while back, I forget the name, had a puzzle where you had to type numbers into a computer, only the text was messed up and the English was badly translated so I had to find a youtube video so I knew what to do as I thought you had to multiply or add the numbers etc. I spoke to Piece about it a while back and he said he'd suggested something similar as well.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 01, 2015, 11:30:29 AM
That's not what I meant.

While it's a nice sentiment and one I wish I could agree with, it's unrealistic to act like the amount of people viewing you shouldn't affect how you much you stream. The truth is streaming to no one is no fun, and with small fanbases there can be times when no one is around so there's no point in streaming. I'm not saying that people are only streaming to get viewers, but I am saying that with more viewers there is more demand and incentive to stream more often. Viewers give the streamer encouragement in their hobby and create a mutual benefit. Not only that but I hardly think its fair to define viewer interaction as something which makes you deserving of a place in the spotlight and then say that actually amount of viewers doesn't matter and act like smaller streamers shouldn't be allowed access to a method of advertisement. I'm an advocate of people doing things they enjoy for themselves and not for other people or posterity, but when the action itself is as inherently communal as streaming it's farcical to act like there isn't a mutual growth and/or relationship.

TJ pointed out that "a randomly selected actively-streaming Wannabe" will be chosen, which people seemed to ignore. No one never said that small streamers can't be picked.
That's quite right, but you did imply that small streamers shouldn't be picked over larger ones and you generalised them and their wishes which is what I was ultimately responding to.

Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on September 01, 2015, 12:59:25 PM
I honestly would've never thought someone would say big streamers deserve to be more advertised than small ones just because they're more active and have more viewers. I think this is made to make new people know us, to meet new streamers from our Twitch group that we haven't met yet and to give recognition to people who deserve more viewers/being a bit more known. I'm not saying big streamers don't deserve that, but what is the purpose of giving them more recognition than small streamers when like 99% of our community already knows them? Let's just make things equal. And if some streamers don't stream for weeks or even months, just don't advertise them.

I think this feature is meant to give recognition to the streamers who really deserve it, rather than just boosting random small streamers.

So you're basically saying that the not-so-famous streamers from our Twitch group are random small streamers who don't deserve to be as much advertised as the big streamers? The main reason why streamers are added to our Twitch group is to make them have a larger audience and being more known in our community, so why would you give them less importance with this feature?

I got that impression from previous posts and them trying to change the system so they would have higher chance of being chosen. Maybe that's just my imagination.

You say it as if small streamers were about to take the power or something. Even if small streamers are advertised, it doesn't mean people are gonna stop watching the big streamers just because there's a streamer being advertised. If people don't like the content or just want more stream quality they'll just watch the big streamers because they have more cool things on their stream, because their bitrate is better or because they're just more enjoyable to watch. This won't affect big streamers, they will still keep growing and growing a lot more than the other channels, if that's what bothers you.

If someone wants to talk in my chat that is fine and I will talk back, but I don't care if no one wants to talk and my chat is dead.

I agree with that, we don't need viewers or chat activity to be streaming. If small streamers streamed just for the views and followers they would have already given up on streaming because fangames aren't that popular compared to the most played games on Twitch. If they keep streaming is because they have fun, not because of their viewers. But it's always nice to be hosted by other streamers and see that your audience grows, right?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: OhNoezEinPandy on September 01, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
I like the idea of posting frequent news being posted on delfruit. Makes the site a bit more lively.  :TriHard:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Wolsk on September 01, 2015, 05:03:48 PM
I like and support the new feature and agree that the "Wannabe of the Month" should be changed to be weekly.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Aelya on September 01, 2015, 06:30:10 PM
looks like another domination tool to be used by the oppressive fangame regime
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: CasualCrap on September 01, 2015, 07:30:08 PM
i think its a cool feature and weekly would be nice to spice stuff up buti think that people are getting there titties tangled in obscure positions over tj and klazen doing a nice thing by adverting anyone it isnt obligated to advertise someone big nor small and so what if they advertise someone big same applies to them advertising someone small it honestly doesnt matter. if someone cares about something like this then it most likely means they care about not being as big which is a shame their are plenty of good players who dont get many views and it shouldnt matter at all who gets featured just appreciate that the feature exists
 
yours truly, The Oppressive Fangame Regime
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 01, 2015, 08:12:44 PM
oppressive fangame regime
i think that people are getting there titties tangled in obscure positions [...] yours truly, The Oppressive Fangame Regime
Top kek. Stay edgy guys :~~)

But seriously, people were just suggesting it would be nice to give fair coverage to both kinds of streamers. I'm not sure why you and others are opposing this so much and repeatedly trying to assert the strawman that it's because the smaller streamers only care about viewers or that they want to get big quick. It's a fair, nice way to bring the community together. No one's stated that it's only going to be "big streamers", Klazen said the opposite, people were just saying that they hoped it would be a fair slice across the board of people big and small. No need to break out the sarcastic edgelord routine.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: CasualCrap on September 01, 2015, 08:39:43 PM
it is a nice feature thats exactly what i said i also said its "most likely" never said it was a thing im not opposing anything i just think its a little too early in the process for people to even think that small streamers werent gonna get featured anyways the whole big and small streamers meme didnt even have to be brought up
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Aelya on September 01, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
i don't post much, but when i do it's utterly useless content just to add fuel :o

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on September 01, 2015, 09:40:59 PM
Woah, woah! Lots of replies for a feature we didn't think would be that controversial! I see lots of different opinions, mostly positive. We're glad the community has taken a liking to the change we are adding to our review site. I want to outline a few things that both Klazen and I have agreed upon, and that we believe gives the community the most transparency and insight into our decision making. I will try to address everyone's concerns/issues raised one-by-one. Here we go!

1.) We are a community site. Yes, we boast reviews and ratings as the flagship for delicious-fruit. Yes, we moderate these reviews and ratings with the utmost transparency, announcing every policy change on both these forums and on del-fruit itself. However, we are dedicated to the community and encourage it to grow and flourish. To achieve this, we sometimes add new features that we believe benefit the community. As we have added many features to the reviews/ratings section, we wanted to try something a little different. Do not think of Delicious-Fruit as a "review only" site. We want it to be a site that you not only check for reviews, but a site you check for community happenings. We believe "Wannabe of the Month" is a great start.

2.) This is not a "big-streamer" only event. We are looking for the best representations of the Wannabes in every stream. We do not look at view counts. Nor follower count. Nor social media followers/subscribers. We don't care if you're a Twitch Partner. We don't worry about webcams, on-screen chat, or even correct 4:3 scaling (but you really should Kappa). We are looking for community members that are great representatives of the community that are also active on Twitch.tv. This is not to say that everyone who doesn't stream on Twitch isn't a good representation, rather, we are looking to highlight those that we believe exemplify what the community should strive towards. Sunbla was chosen out of a pool of active streamers that we wanted to highlight. We have a nice list of streamers that could've taken the spotlight just as randomly as Sunbla. I encourage all of you to congratulate Sunbla on being the 1st "Wannabe of the Month", and help anyone who may be new to his channel integrate themselves into the community. He is, hopefully, just one of many Wannabes you watch!

3.) Regarding weekly switching rather than monthly - I personally do not like the weekly idea. My dislike is two-fold: I do not believe a week is long enough for a "majority" of site visitors to see, and I believe we will have to "recycle" Wannabes at a much quicker pace if we do a weekly switch, rather than monthly. There are only so many active streamers before we would either have to choose an inactive streamer (no-no), or one that has already been chosen (not as exciting). Also, based on how many unique daily visitors we have to the site, I believe it is more beneficial to keep the streamer up for a month rather than a week. Although I can't pinpoint the actual amount of non-bot visitors to the site, based on what I can read, we have roughly the same group of people checking del-fruit on a daily (or near-daily) basis, while it takes a longer time for more uniques to check within a week, two week, or month period. That being said, I think a week is too short and a month is just about the right time. In fact, I believe a 3-week period is probably ideal, however, this is a very ugly time frame to use, so we use a month instead.
TL;DR: Math fun

4.) Stream content - We don't care if you love needles. Avoidances. Adventure. Some weird medley mix. We don't care what you're streaming. We're not prioritizing speedrunners over avoidance players. We're not prioritizing medleys over needle. This plays mostly back to point #1.

5.) We do appreciate your feedback. When Klazen/myself read these posts, we do take it seriously. We discuss every point, bit by bit. We are willing to change things if the community has an overwhelming opinion towards a change that we can agree with to some extent. All in all, we want to help the community. Although I am speaking on behalf of Klazen, I can honestly say that we have tried very hard to keep activity and involvement high in the community, ranging from FGM to Bingo to all of Klazen's meme sites to Del-Fruit itself, and more. We are always looking for something new and fresh to do, and so the "Wannabe of the Month" is our newest addition! If you ever have a suggestion for Del-Fruit (whether it is review-related or not!) please let us know! We already have a few future ideas in mind that we intend on implementing at some point, and we'll make sure everyone stays updated so you never miss a beat.

Thank you for supporting Del-Fruit, and we hope we can continue to create new, fun, and innovative ways to show off our community!
-TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: bananaguy12 on September 02, 2015, 02:21:20 AM
If you do this, you should at some point feature all the wannabes. Be fair to all of them.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 02, 2015, 07:07:45 AM
Onto a separate suggestion. The main reason I don't use the site honestly is because of the lack of any real discussion interface. I like the site for the most part but I feel as though a stream of one-off reviews is limiting. I'm not suggesting any massive overhaul but it would be nice if there was a tab under every game where people could discuss them like a kind of mini forum thread. I'm not sure whether I think it should be integrated into reviews as I don't think people should have to defend their opinions and it might just lead to harassment. I think it's useful because only a fraction of the games on the website have a forum analogue and it would be useful to be able to ask questions and discuss every game because some Japanese games might have text that doesn't display on computers with English as the default and instead of these games getting downvoted or ignored by the western community, people could post how to progress. For instance one fangame a while back, I forget the name, had a puzzle where you had to type numbers into a computer, only the text was messed up and the English was badly translated so I had to find a youtube video so I knew what to do as I thought you had to multiply or add the numbers etc. I spoke to Piece about it a while back and he said he'd suggested something similar as well.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on September 02, 2015, 10:28:19 AM
If you do this, you should at some point feature all the wannabes. Be fair to all of them.

We are planning on selecting new Wannabes every month that are active streamers on twitch.tv.

Onto a separate suggestion. The main reason I don't use the site honestly is because of the lack of any real discussion interface. I like the site for the most part but I feel as though a stream of one-off reviews is limiting. I'm not suggesting any massive overhaul but it would be nice if there was a tab under every game where people could discuss them like a kind of mini forum thread. I'm not sure whether I think it should be integrated into reviews as I don't think people should have to defend their opinions and it might just lead to harassment. I think it's useful because only a fraction of the games on the website have a forum analogue and it would be useful to be able to ask questions and discuss every game because some Japanese games might have text that doesn't display on computers with English as the default and instead of these games getting downvoted or ignored by the western community, people could post how to progress. For instance one fangame a while back, I forget the name, had a puzzle where you had to type numbers into a computer, only the text was messed up and the English was badly translated so I had to find a youtube video so I knew what to do as I thought you had to multiply or add the numbers etc. I spoke to Piece about it a while back and he said he'd suggested something similar as well.

While I don't think the re-quote of your own text was necessary, a discussion tab for each game will be considered. Del-Fruit, among other things, has no real way to communicate to a wide audience instantly. A discussion tab for each game would solve this issue, however, I can already see it being abused far more than just the reviews themselves. This would also have to be heavily moderated, which is something we would like to avoid. We would rather have a self-sufficient system in which the community can regulate itself. A discussion panel, unfortunately, would probably have to be moderated because of certain comments made towards the game, the creator, or other community members. We have a strict policy against disparaging comments towards any of the 3 parties listed, and we would have to apply this to the discussion panel, which undermines the point of a 'discussion' entirely.

In addition, a discussion panel acts as a mini-forum for the game. Although we wish for Del-Fruit to be successful in a variety of ways, we do not want it to be a place for discussion. This is what a forum is for, and we would rather drive traffic to this site for discussion. Forum-like changes made to Del-Fruit could hurt these forums in the long run, which is something we also want to avoid. Let this site stand as a place for discussion and image sharing, while let Del-Fruit stand as a place for reviews, ratings, and other minor add-ins.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 02, 2015, 11:59:51 AM
I assumed it was lost in the rubble the first time.

I'm not really sure I'm understanding of the goal you have for the site: You claim you want it to be more than a review site, and that discussion would allow better communication on the site, but then you go on to say that actually you don't want discussion on the site and that the site should remain about reviews and ratings.

Your claim that adding discussion to delicious fruit would drive traffic away from the forums is quite frankly unsubstantiated as most of the discussion here is about creating games & video discussion about people's achievements, neither of which would be the point of a discussion tab. I also don't see why people would just suddenly move over to delicious fruit if it did have similar features anyway: IWBTF does everything this place does and it doesn't steal traffic away - people are capable of using both at once. The main focus of the site would still be on tight concise reviews and statistics, and that would be what differentiates it from these forums.

The reason I think it's a good idea is because many games on delicious fruit have no screenshots, no reviews and are in Japanese. This makes it very hard for people to give them a go when many employ gimmicks that have no explanation if you don't speak Japanese. A discussion or a questions tab where someone can say "How do I get past the boss in stage 5?" and someone who knows the answer could help them would do wonders for the site; not only would a lot of the games gathering dust on there slowly start to accrue ratings as people could give them a fair go due to their newfound accessibility, but it would make the site a more welcoming environment for people of lower levels as they can seek advice on trickier fangames. It isn't just Japanese fangames, some western fangames have strange and esoteric mechanics that aren't explained as well. You might say this is what a walkthrough is for, or what a forum post is for, but being realistic there are so many fangames released that one off posts asking questions would clutter the forums and that people wouldn't want to create walkthroughs of just to show off how to do one small section; a concise discussion tab on delicious fruit would solve both of those problems and contain friendly help/advice in one small place. Again, this is not the same as what a forum thread would be for; I'm not suggesting the discussion tab would function as criticism either, because that's what the reviews are for.

As for moderation, if you just went with a simple FAQ or question answer format, you'd only need to confirm or deny answers/questions in the same way you do for download requests and screenshot uploads, which I honestly doubt would add that much extra to the workload. (Even if it did, I'm sure you could find someone who would be willing to help; I, for instance, would gladly help implement and smooth over such a feature as the lack of it is one of the reasons why I don't find the site very user-friendly).

Though I do understand and agree with your worries of abuse, I just don't see how moderating them would function any different to how you moderate reviews. There's a report button and most people are sensible enough not to need to use it. The only silly things I've seen on delicious fruit are people reviewing bad games as 10/10 which is honestly just a bit of playful fun that is obviously facetious, even to outsiders. I've not seen anything malicious - which granted not being a moderator there might make sense, and is probably testament to the good job you do. But I would say that a lot of your worries about this feature are overblown: drawing traffic away from the forums, diluting the function of the site, promoting abuse, etc - I just don't see any of these things having any realistic chance of happening if this feature is implemented correctly and with care, as I'm sure it would be.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: lawatson on September 02, 2015, 12:27:31 PM
shit dude i didn't know that shadows made the text mountain challenge
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: bananaguy12 on September 02, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
If you do this, you should at some point feature all the wannabes. Be fair to all of them.

We are planning on selecting new Wannabes every month that are active streamers on twitch.tv.

Onto a separate suggestion. The main reason I don't use the site honestly is because of the lack of any real discussion interface. I like the site for the most part but I feel as though a stream of one-off reviews is limiting. I'm not suggesting any massive overhaul but it would be nice if there was a tab under every game where people could discuss them like a kind of mini forum thread. I'm not sure whether I think it should be integrated into reviews as I don't think people should have to defend their opinions and it might just lead to harassment. I think it's useful because only a fraction of the games on the website have a forum analogue and it would be useful to be able to ask questions and discuss every game because some Japanese games might have text that doesn't display on computers with English as the default and instead of these games getting downvoted or ignored by the western community, people could post how to progress. For instance one fangame a while back, I forget the name, had a puzzle where you had to type numbers into a computer, only the text was messed up and the English was badly translated so I had to find a youtube video so I knew what to do as I thought you had to multiply or add the numbers etc. I spoke to Piece about it a while back and he said he'd suggested something similar as well.

While I don't think the re-quote of your own text was necessary, a discussion tab for each game will be considered. Del-Fruit, among other things, has no real way to communicate to a wide audience instantly. A discussion tab for each game would solve this issue, however, I can already see it being abused far more than just the reviews themselves. This would also have to be heavily moderated, which is something we would like to avoid. We would rather have a self-sufficient system in which the community can regulate itself. A discussion panel, unfortunately, would probably have to be moderated because of certain comments made towards the game, the creator, or other community members. We have a strict policy against disparaging comments towards any of the 3 parties listed, and we would have to apply this to the discussion panel, which undermines the point of a 'discussion' entirely.

In addition, a discussion panel acts as a mini-forum for the game. Although we wish for Del-Fruit to be successful in a variety of ways, we do not want it to be a place for discussion. This is what a forum is for, and we would rather drive traffic to this site for discussion. Forum-like changes made to Del-Fruit could hurt these forums in the long run, which is something we also want to avoid. Let this site stand as a place for discussion and image sharing, while let Del-Fruit stand as a place for reviews, ratings, and other minor add-ins.

How often is actively streaming?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 02, 2015, 04:37:15 PM
There's nothing set in stone, it's just a common sense thing. It's better to feature someone who will stream at least once during that month, ya know :Kappa: But at the same time, I don't need you to have an established M-F schedule with at least 4 hours a day or something like that.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on September 02, 2015, 04:41:43 PM
I can say with absolute certainty that everyone is taking this way too seriously and should just sit back and see who gets picked a few more times before whining. A sample size of one isn't exactly enough to make any conclusions about favoritism or trends or anything. Constantly making demands of people doing something for free is really unseemly.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 02, 2015, 06:10:27 PM
I can say with absolute certainty that everyone is taking this way too seriously and should just sit back and see who gets picked a few more times before whining. A sample size of one isn't exactly enough to make any conclusions about favoritism or trends or anything. Constantly making demands of people doing something for free is really unseemly.
No one's making demands - suggestions were asked for and suggestions were given. No one was jumping to conclusions at all, as far as I can see people were just voicing their hopes for the future of the feature. The people who I would say were overreacting are those who for some reason felt so threatened by people hoping for fair representation (that might I add, was promised) that they had to pretend that those who want it have some vested interest/only care about views.

The problem is people are jumping to attack without actually reading what's been said. Lawatson said "I would simply like to know if your picks will range to the streamers with less viewers, such as Iginlaj and JGBMaster." He didn't jump to conclusions, he didn't say "You're only picking big streamers!!! This is tyranny!!", he simply asked about the procedure for picking and mentioned that he felt it would be nice for streamers with less views to also get the spotlight if they weren't already. JGBMaster said "I'm ok with it as long as the channels (from The Wannabes Twitch team) are randomly selected." - where are the conclusions being jumped to there? Klazen asked how people felt about the feature and JGBMaster gave an honest and extremely reasonable answer. But then you have people like Moose immediately jumping to "[It] only seems to upset new small streamers who are hoping to get bigger fast." Where exactly did that come from? And then we get facetious edgelords saying stuff like "looks like another domination tool to be used by the oppressive fangame regime"/"yours truly, The Oppressive Fangame Regime". These last two pages have been a trainwreck of strawmanning at its worst. No one is demanding anything, people were voicing extremely reasonable opinions/suggestions which were asked for by the creators of the site.

No one was demanding or whining or whatever it is you're asserting - people were simply giving their opinion on the feature, that they hope the streamers are randomly chosen and no weighting is given to how popular they are.

I'm not even sure why this conversation is still happening, Klazen and tehjman assured everyone that representation would be fair and that's the end of it. Oppressive fangame regime overthrown! I really don't see any reason to dredge this up again.



My account logs itself out every couple hours or so - is this intentional? Is it a browser thing? It's kinda annoying.

EDIT: Also a glitch I just found, I'm not sure if you know but even if you have multiple spoilers in one post, clicking to reveal one will reveal all of them but leave the buttons to reveal the others ones intact.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 02, 2015, 08:48:23 PM
EDIT: Also a glitch I just found, I'm not sure if you know but even if you have multiple spoilers in one post, clicking to reveal one will reveal all of them but leave the buttons to reveal the others ones intact.

I noticed this on the review that you just posted, never tested it with multiple spoilers in a single review! I've updated the javascript to fix it; you may need to do a force refresh on your browser to pick it up immediately, otherwise it'll grab it when it feels like it!

Oh yeah and this:
My account logs itself out every couple hours or so - is this intentional? Is it a browser thing? It's kinda annoying.

I'm gonna be honest and say I'm not 100% sure what the cause of this is... despite adding in cookie sessioning, there are instances when you still get logged out. It seems to work fine for me most of the time, so it's hard to debug. I don't have a lot of experience in from-scratch web development, so I'm not really sure what to look for!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 02, 2015, 08:59:27 PM
I noticed this on the review that you just posted, never tested it with multiple spoilers in a single review! I've updated the javascript to fix it; you may need to do a force refresh on your browser to pick it up immediately, otherwise it'll grab it when it feels like it!

Nice :~)

I'm gonna be honest and say I'm not 100% sure what the cause of this is... despite adding in cookie sessioning, there are instances when you still get logged out. It seems to work fine for me most of the time, so it's hard to debug. I don't have a lot of experience in from-scratch web development, so I'm not really sure what to look for!
In between me saying that and you replying it's logged me out again ahah :~) No worries if it's not a quick fix, just didn't know if it was my browser or the site. Not too much of an issue anyway. Appreciate all the effort!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on September 03, 2015, 04:47:54 AM
I don't actually think there were many demands going on, I just wanted to show you how it felt to be accused of that.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 03, 2015, 01:50:51 PM
I don't actually think there were many demands going on, I just wanted to show you how it felt to be accused of that.
Oh grow up Kyir. Why bring up an old argument for no reason in this thread? Last I checked we had a thread for discussing this and you didn't bother replying. If it still hurts you so much go back and reply to that thread (the thread in which I had to explain basic English to you because you insist that the word "encourage", the one I used, is a synonym for "demand"). If you must keep flogging the dead horse that is this nonsensical strawman at least have the courtesy to do it in the thread we were discussing it in, instead of intentionally riling people up and sullying a thread dedicated to hard-working people doing something for the benefit of the community.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on September 03, 2015, 02:21:39 PM
If you weren't so meandering in making your points I would probably be more likely to read/respond appropriately to them. I don't have the energy to read things I enjoy these days, let alone your TOS-agreements of posts.

I will definitely apologize to TJ and Klazen next time I talk to them though. My continued harassment of both of them has gone on for far too long.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Arclooper on September 03, 2015, 02:48:42 PM
This would be a good time for the oppressive fangame regime to do some oppressing, yall need to chill.

This isn't even a big deal, and the funny part is even if it was, I don't think any of the sides actually doubt that TJ and klazen would manage it well, so this discussion is even more meaningless. Some drama now and then is funny to watch, but you gotta feel sorry for both of them, they were just trying to do something nice and they get this shitstorm holy crap.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 03, 2015, 03:08:58 PM
This would be a good time for the oppressive fangame regime to do some oppressing, yall need to chill.

This isn't even a big deal, and the funny part is even if it was, I don't think any of the sides actually doubt that TJ and klazen would manage it well, so this discussion is even more meaningless. Some drama now and then is funny to watch, but you gotta feel sorry for both of them, they were just trying to do something nice and they get this shitstorm holy crap.
I know right. The most saddening thing is that the whole big/small streamer debacle has been 'resolved' a fair few times now & there's literally no point to continuing the discussion but people keep coming back to reignite it because they feel as though they have something to defend, or in Kyir's case just coming back to flame aimlessly.


I did contact a moderator a while back as it really is truly ridiculous, but they don't appear to have gotten the message yet.


In terms of the site, something I'd recommend is a filter to the "Read more reviews!" page with the options of "Reviews/Ratings/Both". Going one step further, it might be nice to have a "buddy system" where you can flag users as buddies, or follow them, or something, and there'd be a tab for filtering out all recent reviews to just those of your friends/people you like the opinions of. It would be less cumbersome than checking their accounts individually. I don't think it should be publicly viewable who is following who if we want to avoid ganging up and such, which seems to be a worry of Klazen/tehjman's, but I do think it would help the site feel less disparate, which is my general problem with it. (And something you seem to agree with by worry of lacking communication on the site).

Again, it's just a suggestion and, as you can see by my heightened presence there over the past few days, I do enjoy the site as is, but I do believe it could be a bit more user-friendly just in terms of being able to penetrate the wall that is streams of one-off reviews.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on September 03, 2015, 04:03:52 PM
All of yall, calm down.
You have received a warning, Kyir.

If this discussion remains heated, I will not hesitate to hand out more warnings.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on September 03, 2015, 04:35:05 PM
Disclaimer: I am typing this from a phone, I take no responsibility for auto-correct errors.

After reading some more of this discussion, I first ask that everyone keep it civilized. I don't want anyone getting warned/banned from the forums because of some silly feature discussion on some silly review site. I will not respond to anyone that I feel is only using this thread as a way to attack another.

That being said: I noticed a few more suggestions have been mentioned since my last post, as well as some slight misunderstanding about my vision for delicious-fruit. I will clarify these points as concise as possible, because there are way too many long posts in this thread :ResidentSleeper:

"Discussion" and Del-Fruit: Yes, del-fruit has reviews. Yes, we have community involvement in the sense of ratings, screenshots, and comments (as well as misc. profile information). No, we do not have a "forum"-like discussion area, such as a discussion tab where users could post "How do I beat x Boss in this game?" or "What do you do in the puzzle room?" These questions are constantly asked, at least from what I see on Twitch. I want these questions to reside on these forums, not our own del-fruit forums. I want people to use these forums to the extent that they should be used (see: increase use). Rather, adding a discussion tab on del-fruit (even if is just a comment-like section) may divert traffic from here to del-fruit, something we wish to avoid.

More options: We will definitely take this into consideration to help refine searches on del-fruit, specifically through the "read more reviews!" button. In the future, we will attempt to make this both user-friendly and well-refined.

A "buddy" system: I have not heard this idea before, and it is quite interesting. I will have to consult with Klazen how practical this idea is, however, I like the idea of it. Of course, any user that you are "buddy" with (or just "following", whatever) will have to be set to private, such that any other user cannot see your buddy list, nor can you see theirs. It would be interesting to compare your own clear lists, ratings, and reviews to that of your buddies' list. Most certainly a consideration.

I hope this clears up everything up to this point. I hope most of the wildfire surrounding the "Wannabe of the Month" has died down, which it looks like it has. My phone is nearly dead, so I'll stop here.

Thanks for choosing Oppressive Fangame Regime™ Delicious-Fruit as your site of choice! not like you had any other option #FangameMonopoly #BringBackBingo
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 03, 2015, 06:36:57 PM
it might be nice to have a "buddy system" where you can flag users as buddies, or follow them, or something, and there'd be a tab for filtering out all recent reviews to just those of your friends/people you like the opinions of. It would be less cumbersome than checking their accounts individually. I don't think it should be publicly viewable who is following who if we want to avoid ganging up and such, which seems to be a worry of Klazen/tehjman's, but I do think it would help the site feel less disparate, which is my general problem with it. (And something you seem to agree with by worry of lacking communication on the site).

Done! You can now follow a user on their page, and filter the reviews page by buddies/all if you're logged in. I'll probably add extra features for this (maybe mark buddies' reviews on game pages with a star or something idk) if I get more time. Let me know if this is useful or if you encounter any bugs (of which I'm sure there are a ton ;; )

EDIT: tfw I got the 108th post :4Head:

EDIT 2: We've updated the site to only display downloadable fangames in the "Newest Fangames" list on the homepage. Anyone can still submit games, but they won't show up there since normal users can't add download links. If you report the game and add a download link an admin will review your request, and if approved it will appear in the newest fangames list. All games added are still visible in the full list, and available to be searched at any time. Note that if you want to add a game to the wiki and to delfruit, DON'T SUBMIT IT TO DELFRUIT! We'll pick it up as part of our daily scan of new games on the wiki. Thanks again for your support!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on September 05, 2015, 04:26:09 PM
Great work! Both solid improvements to the site :~)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on September 09, 2015, 03:40:14 PM
dunno if it's happening to anyone else, but the genre tags and the maker links lead to nothing.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: just_another_Guy on September 09, 2015, 05:20:06 PM
yeah, clicking the creator's name leads nowhere for some reason
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 10, 2015, 01:05:42 AM
Sorry, I had to make some modifications to the site to support account closure, and due to the database structure change the advanced search isn't working. The tags & creator names lead to an advanced search, so those will be gone until I can refactor the search query. Sorry! I'll post here when I've got a fix.

EDIT: Ok I think I got it, thanks for the report!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on September 19, 2015, 06:26:56 PM
Hello Del-Fruiters!

I want to remind everyone that using the review section to attack the game in a harsh manner, or attacking the game creator(s) directly, is immediate grounds for removal of your review. There has been a large group of players that have decided to use delicious-fruit as a way to bash a specific game and its creator(s), all while playing the victim "woe is me" card. We will not tolerate any individual attacking another, let alone a group.

Although I have already removed 2 reviews and warned the users, I will state it here for future reference:

This is your one and only warning.

We will IP ban you from the site, and we will follow up on this IP for future accounts, events, etc.

I hate making these announcements, and you should hate seeing them. For those that have no idea what's going on, you're obviously not the issue! If you think this is directly addressing your behavior, then this announcement was hand-crafted just for you. Grow up.

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Anon70000 on September 24, 2015, 03:37:45 AM
There's a bug when someone tagged the game "impossible" and his review got removed, the tag is still on the game (Zorgo Needle) game proved to be possible.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 24, 2015, 11:14:08 AM
I just checked Zorgo Needle and I don't see an impossible tag, can you screenshot it for me?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Anon70000 on September 24, 2015, 12:22:50 PM
klazen108
The Tag is gone, but if you filter games by tag "Impossible" you'll see Zorgo Needle.
(https://pp.vk.me/c622829/v622829571/4bb9d/LdGiAM8RWP0.jpg)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on September 24, 2015, 11:00:59 PM
Aha I see, I understand why that's happening. Thanks for the report, I'll take care of this as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on September 30, 2015, 10:27:19 PM
It's that time of month ... for the next Wannabe of the Month!

October's featured streamer is Pandy49!

Pandy may be one of the newer members of the Wannabes, but he has already left his mark on the community! Beginning in early 2014 and ever-seeking a challenge, Pandy started his own Weekly Fangame Challenge (WFC) that you may have heard of! Pandy also was featured in the Fangame Marathon with his well-received "I wanna be a Cute Duck" run! Overall, Pandy looks for improvement and challenges in the community, so be sure to stop on by when he's live!

You can give him some love at www.twitch.tv/pandy49 , or you can visit del-fruit for more links!

Congratulations to Pandy, and we look forward to more positive reception from the community!

-TJ&Klazen

(P.S. Sunbla's Wannabe of the Month feature was a success, and brought in over 200 unique views to his channel!)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: larsral1 on October 01, 2015, 05:31:09 AM
well pandy time for daily streaming  :Kappa:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Wolsk on October 01, 2015, 07:15:56 PM
You forgot to mention that Pandy is also cute af.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WetWookie on October 05, 2015, 07:10:01 AM
Any chance we can make it so the author can indicate the current version of their game which would display on the page and then add a page like http://www.delicious-fruit.com/ratings/game_version.php?id=15472 which would return just the current version number? This would let us check the game's current version whenever the player launches the game so we can tell them if they need to update or not.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Starz0r on October 05, 2015, 09:15:25 AM
Any chance we can make it so the author can indicate the current version of their game which would display on the page and then add a page like http://www.delicious-fruit.com/ratings/game_version.php?id=15472 which would return just the current version number? This would let us check the game's current version whenever the player launches the game so we can tell them if they need to update or not.

It would probably just be easier to make your own download server from Dropbox or something. The current version thing sounds nice, but it a lot of work for Klazen to manage it all for any of it to be accurate. Unless Klazen decides to turn DelFruit into a site for uploading and downloading fangames too, I think this feature is better left out.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on October 05, 2015, 06:57:01 PM
I agree with WetWookie and disagree with Starz0r that it should be left out; that said there's merit in the idea of a curator functionality. I also don't think that del-fruit needs to log all versions of the game, just the most recent.

I imagine the process would go something like this:
- A reviewer requests access to a curator profile type.
- They are then verified through means decided by Klazen.
- They can then edit the entries of games they are the creator (or main collaborator) of (edit abilities should definitely been contained to just one profile per game to avoid collaborator bickering/miscommunication).
- The options at their disposable would be the following: being able to set and change download links, being able to upload screenshots without need for verification, being able to specify version type and, even though they're not currently implemented, being able to add a written bio. (The functionality of adding bios to your own games is something I think the site needs since self-review isn't necessarily an issue but looks messy and the creator review can get lost underneath the other reviews - this would remedy that ad also ensure creators self-review their own games were tampering with its score).

I think it's an idea worth considering. I suppose if you added versions you'd also have to add a function to select which version you'd played when reviewing.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on October 05, 2015, 09:28:27 PM
Any chance we can make it so the author can indicate the current version of their game which would display on the page and then add a page like http://www.delicious-fruit.com/ratings/game_version.php?id=15472 which would return just the current version number? This would let us check the game's current version whenever the player launches the game so we can tell them if they need to update or not.

A public API to check game information by id in a simple JSON format is on my radar. I'm not actively adding new features to the site right now because I'm so busy with other stuff... it's about all I can do just to keep up with maintenance and reports at the moment :Kappa:

I agree with WetWookie and disagree with Starz0r that it should be left out; that said there's merit in the idea of a curator functionality. I also don't think that del-fruit needs to log all versions of the game, just the most recent.

I imagine the process would go something like this:
- A reviewer requests access to a curator profile type.
- They are then verified through means decided by Klazen.
- They can then edit the entries of games they are the creator (or main collaborator) of (edit abilities should definitely been contained to just one profile per game to avoid collaborator bickering/miscommunication).
- The options at their disposable would be the following: being able to set and change download links, being able to upload screenshots without need for verification, being able to specify version type and, even though they're not currently implemented, being able to add a written bio. (The functionality of adding bios to your own games is something I think the site needs since self-review isn't necessarily an issue but looks messy and the creator review can get lost underneath the other reviews - this would remedy that ad also ensure creators self-review their own games were tampering with its score).

I think it's an idea worth considering. I suppose if you added versions you'd also have to add a function to select which version you'd played when reviewing.

Going along with this, at some point we'd like to switch delfruit over from passive game management to active game management. What does this mean? It means that users on the site can link themselves to their games, and update the download link themselves.

However, this involves a huge paradigm shift from the way things work today. The #1 hurdle, for instance, is how do we link people to their games? Do we let people put in requests saying "this game is mine, link it to me please"? The obvious way would be to cut out the middleman (the wiki) and let people upload directly to delfruit themselves. However, people are already concerned with a community split - no one wants to check 2 different sites to see if they missed a new game release. Also, since delfruit mirrors the wiki, if you remove your game there, it's gone here too - no need to remove from both.

Also, there's still the problem of the 2873 fangames that exist on the site today. Verification is pretty much impossible unless I know you personally - there are many accounts on delfruit whose names are not the same as the names listed as author for their games, and I can imagine the land grab that would be attempted if anyone could put in a request for game authorship.

Basically, it's this authorship issue which needs to be worked out before any of these ideas can move forward. The API could be worked out today, but it's just going to return the information you can already find on the site, not very useful for an autoupdater. The "Creator's Bio" for each game also sounds like a very neat idea, but again, is blocked by this.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Anon70000 on October 06, 2015, 12:20:26 AM
since delfruit mirrors the wiki, if you remove your game there, it's gone here too - no need to remove from both.
there is a huge chunk of games that have been deleted from wiki, but still on Del-Fruit
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on October 06, 2015, 05:59:35 AM
Fundamentally the wiki and Del-Fruit treat authority is differing and conflicting ways. The wiki doesn't care and Del-Fruit does. Unfortunately if Del-Fruit maintains its symbiotic relationship with the wiki I doubt the issue of authorship will have a satisfying conclusion. The only reasonable way you could do this is to accept that previous games' profiles may remain bare and unclaimed, but set up a framework for future games and profiles to function in this way. The way you sort the authorship issue is simple: people upload the game on their curator account before uploading it to the wiki, because as soon as its on the wiki it has no concrete authorship but beforehand the creator is reasonably speaking the only person likely to have a functioning copy of the game. The issue here is, as you've said, the occurrence of doubles and the fact that Del-Fruit asks users not to upload games that are on the wiki first.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on October 06, 2015, 02:08:33 PM
since delfruit mirrors the wiki, if you remove your game there, it's gone here too - no need to remove from both.
there is a huge chunk of games that have been deleted from wiki, but still on Del-Fruit

I'm not aware of any games that were removed from the wiki that you can still download on delfruit? There may be one or two that the creator submitted a download link for, but that's allowed. Please report them if you know of them.

Unfortunately if Del-Fruit maintains its symbiotic relationship with the wiki I doubt the issue of authorship will have a satisfying conclusion.

That's basically the heart of it. We originally made the site as a more user-friendly way to browse the wiki, with reviews as the focus, and only now are these other possibilities moving into the spotlight.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WrathofAnubis on October 06, 2015, 07:03:40 PM
Noticed today that the user list seems to be broken, the table headers load but nothing else does.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on October 07, 2015, 12:52:51 PM
Just checked, not sure why but the webhost isn't letting me count reviews AND screenshots for each user... I can count one or the other, but if I try both then it just silently returns no results. So that's neat. I've removed screenshot counts from the users table, so at least the table loads.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Ataosama on October 14, 2015, 02:46:00 PM
When someone's account is deleted all his reviews are removed but not his screenshots.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Ario147 on October 14, 2015, 03:11:35 PM
When someone's account is deleted all his reviews are removed but not his screenshots.

What's the reason of removing someones screenshots, if they got approved and represent the game well?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Star0z Huez Pizdos on October 29, 2015, 06:33:34 AM
This Website Created In 8 February 2015 Year,Really?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: pieceofcheese87 on October 29, 2015, 10:23:22 AM
yes
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on October 29, 2015, 10:23:41 AM
This Website Created In 8 February 2015 Year,Really?

Stinky was one of the testers on the site before it went public, which was a few days before February 8th. So the site was officially open to public on that date.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on October 29, 2015, 05:25:28 PM
Take a look at his YT channel and you'll understand

:Kappa:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on October 30, 2015, 11:04:32 AM
We all wait with bated breath to see who the oppressive fangame regime chooses to elevate next.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on October 31, 2015, 12:39:47 AM
Take a look at his YT channel and you'll understand

:Kappa:

Now I'm really confused.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on November 03, 2015, 11:18:08 AM
Hello Del-Fruiters!

We have our monthly update of 'Wannabe of the Month' - featuring Igzicorus!

A somewhat newer addition to the Wannabes, Igzicorus is no pushover. Many of his streams are dedicated to completing one ridiculously hard task at a time - such as his own "Kamilia 3 Secret Bosses Mini Challenge", where he aims to beat the 4 games that the K3 secret bosses were taken from - before fighting the K3 bosses themselves! Much more than K3, he's cleared numerous difficult games and continues to do so on a very active schedule. If you want a streamer who isn't afraid of a challenge and will grind out the unthinkable, drop by Igzicorus' stream and say hey!

You can find him @ www.twitch.tv/igzicorus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We apologize for the 3-day delay on this Wannabe of the Month announcement - our initial selection had turned down the offer, and so we had to move that selection to another date and choose again! Congrats to Igzi, we hope you enjoy the front page of Del-Fruit!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Cantavanda on November 22, 2015, 09:28:55 AM
Hello there, I wen ton this (http://www.delicious-fruit.com/ratings/full.php?q=ALL) page, and sorted the list by rating, because I wanted to see the highest rated fangames. Only to find that the best ones were all obscure fangames with only ONE rating.
Is it possible to make a kind of search function that will sort the best fangames, but not only with average score, but also how many ratings it has, that way, only ones that have been rated a lot, and still have a good 9+ or 8+ score will appear there. That would be amazing.
Thanks!


-Cantavanda
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on November 22, 2015, 10:22:57 AM
Merged your original topic with this one since it directly correlates.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on November 28, 2015, 10:02:16 PM
Hello there, I wen ton this (http://www.delicious-fruit.com/ratings/full.php?q=ALL) page, and sorted the list by rating, because I wanted to see the highest rated fangames. Only to find that the best ones were all obscure fangames with only ONE rating.
Is it possible to make a kind of search function that will sort the best fangames, but not only with average score, but also how many ratings it has, that way, only ones that have been rated a lot, and still have a good 9+ or 8+ score will appear there. That would be amazing.
Thanks!


-Cantavanda

This is definitely something I've thought about, the ability to search for fangames with a certain threshold number of ratings. There's lot of neat statistics we could play on the set of ratings! However, as of right now, we've only got 5000 reviews for 3000 fangames - on average, there's 1.6 ratings per game (and over 1000 games with no rating at all!). Now don't get me wrong, 5000 reviews is freaking insane, and I think it's awesome we've had this much community involvement! But I think from a statistical point of view, we still don't have enough data to start drawing conclusions at this time.

I'll play around with the idea of a review count threshold, if I get results that look useful I'll consider pushing an update (don't take that as a promise :Kappa: )
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on December 02, 2015, 11:39:02 AM
Hello Del-Fruiters!

This month's "Wannabe of the Month" designation goes to Eelusion!

It's Boshy Time! At least, that's what you'll hear numerous times over at Eelusion's channel! Eelusion is a fairly new addition to the Wannabes and a community member for a number of years. He has an intense interest in Boshy, and has quite rapidly climbed the ranks to 5th in the Any% category. Although 5th might not sound impressive, his runs are frequently on pace for a top 3 time, including the infamous WR Pace . We hope you encourage him on his journey to become the #1 Boshy Any% player in the world!

You can also find Eelusion on twitter! @ https://twitter.com/Eelusion_Twitch

Congrats to Eelusion, and we hope the end of the year is wonderful for each and every one of you!

-TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Derf on December 24, 2015, 05:05:20 AM
I'm curious, did anything ever come off the aim to switch del-fruit from passive to active fangame management? I know Klazen and I discussed the difficulties a few months back but has anything progressed on that front?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on January 02, 2016, 04:24:15 PM
http://imgur.com/qUFf6mW I'm thinking it may be time to clean out the tags a bit; it's ridiculous how many tags there are that only have the use of excoriating a game (and its creator, perhaps) or for the novelty of having the tag exist.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on January 20, 2016, 03:19:33 PM
Yeah cleaning out the tags is a time-consuming process as I have to open up the database and decide whether to move tags to more appropriate categories (like Meedly to Medley, come on guys, take one second to spell it correctly) or whether it should just go poof, and also if I need to warn the taggers that we don't take kindly to that kind of talk round here etc etc

Anyway I've cleaned up a bunch of the tags, and I'm considering closing off the new tag creation process soon. I think having new tags approved by admins would prevent the system from becoming clogged with garbage like it was earlier. Then we can work out which tags we want to keep and which ones get the axe.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on January 31, 2016, 07:19:16 AM
Sometimes, when I'm trying to find a new needle game to play I have to search through some pages of reviews till I find the "Needle" tag. I think it would be great if we could just have links to all of the fangame genre tags and some other popular tags on the front page so people can just click them or type them on a search bar for tags. And talking about tags, I think it would be cool to add the "random game" feature for each tag.

Oh, and I think that adding the option to just find games with only a tag in particular would be cool too. The reason why I think this is a good idea is because there's people who are avoidance-exclusive players that I'm sure they hate when the game they're playing is "ruined" by "boring" or "bullshit" needle, or needle-exclusive players that just don't want to have to deal with avoidance fights/bosses, etc.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Artardss on January 31, 2016, 08:18:46 AM
Sometimes, when I'm trying to find a new needle game to play I have to search through some pages of reviews till I find the "Needle" tag. I think it would be great if we could just have links to all of the fangame genre tags and some other popular tags on the front page so people can just click them or type them on a search bar for tags. And talking about tags, I think it would be cool to add the "random game" feature for each tag.

Oh, and I think that adding the option to just find games with only a tag in particular would be cool too. The reason why I think this is a good idea is because there's people who are avoidance-exclusive players that I'm sure they hate when the game they're playing is "ruined" by "boring" or "bullshit" needle, or needle-exclusive players that just don't want to have to deal with avoidance fights/bosses, etc.

You can click on "advanced" in the top right corner of the website. You can then search by tag, and if you press "I'm feeling lucky!" you get a random game with that tag. You can also Reroll when you get a result you're not happy with.

edit: Having some kind of "exclude" tag could be good yes. So people can for example search for "adventure", but exclude "trap" or what you mentioned with Needle/avoidance games.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on January 31, 2016, 05:25:42 PM
You can click on "advanced" in the top right corner of the website. You can then search by tag, and if you press "I'm feeling lucky!" you get a random game with that tag. You can also Reroll when you get a result you're not happy with.

Didn't know that :o
Thanks!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 01, 2016, 11:02:47 PM
Wannabe of the Month announcement alert! What happens when you double the max bullet count?
...
You get TenShots!
...
Bad puns aside, TenShotsTV has earned himself the February Wannabe of the Month! Ten is no stranger to I Wanna Be The Guy and its fangames - he originally had the Glitchless World Record in the original IWBTG! He has also speedran a variety of fangames such as Galaxy, Find My Destiny, and NANG! Throughout this month, Tenshots is working on his own project he has dubbed the "tenKid tour," where he attempts to beat a whole slew of difficult fangames! Come give him some friendly fangame encouragement @ http://www.tenshots.tv, or the usual www.twitch.tv/TenshotsTV!

yo also we got creator reviews now you can claim a game if your the creater and your reviews gonna be put up at the top and green so people notice it and also there's attributes so if you want to have your game check delfruit to see if its time to download a new version you can do that with our super fancy rest api json in the cloud synergy management
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 01, 2016, 11:03:23 PM
What Klazen is trying to say is:

You asked, we delivered! Creators now have a little more presence on del-fruit!

So what does this mean?

Every game must have a creator, right? If you're a creator of a game on del-fruit, you can request to be given special "creator" status on the reviews of that game only. Each request is hand-spun and placed on a velvet pillow before being given to a moderator for approval or denial. If you are approved as the "verified" creator of a game, you will receive a special "creator" tag on your review of your game, put at the top of the review list, and given a special review color. This is to give you, as a creator, a chance to preview or talk about your game to any potential new players!

In addition to the creator buff, we're also adding in a version checker for creators to use on their games that are currently listed on del-fruit! Using a fancy, magic-laced program, creators will be allowed to update the version number that will be reflected on del-fruit, as a way of keeping all of your fans up-to-date on the latest and greatest version of your game. Of course, you will still need to update your download link on the wiki - we can't control that!

Let us know what you think!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 128-Up on February 01, 2016, 11:19:02 PM
Wannabe of the Month announcement alert! What happens when you double the max bullet count?
...
You get TenShots!

Wouldn't that be EightShots?

EDIT:

Also, where did all the reviews go, and how exactly do you request creator status?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 02, 2016, 12:16:45 AM
Also, where did all the reviews go, and how exactly do you request creator status?

Sorry, reviews were glitchy for a couple of minutes while the code changes loaded in production. Everything's been ironed out now!

To request ownership of a game, you need to report the game and ask for ownership. Also, if it's not 100% obvious that your delfruit account is the owner, you'll need to provide proof or otherwise contact an admin directly outside of the site so we can verify that you are the creator (twitch whispers, skype pms, forum pms, etc all work great)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Swordslinger on February 02, 2016, 03:38:26 AM
Wannabe of the Month announcement alert! What happens when you double the max bullet count?
...
You get TenShots!

What a lie, his break screen only has 9 bullets, you can't fill the clip with one missing bullet, so it is not doubled, it is 1.80

In all seriousness, congrats ten i guiess
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 02, 2016, 09:04:36 AM
Also, where did all the reviews go, and how exactly do you request creator status?

Sorry, reviews were glitchy for a couple of minutes while the code changes loaded in production. Everything's been ironed out now!

To request ownership of a game, you need to report the game and ask for ownership. Also, if it's not 100% obvious that your delfruit account is the owner, you'll need to provide proof or otherwise contact an admin directly outside of the site so we can verify that you are the creator (twitch whispers, skype pms, forum pms, etc all work great)

Also, credit card numbers, social security numbers, and passports work great!

Just kidding don't actually do that

As a side note: For games with multiple creators, designate one as the liaison on del-fruit to talk about the game if requesting ownership. At this time, more than one creator will not work per game. Thanks!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on February 02, 2016, 10:55:03 AM
Thanks for this feature! It's nice to not have important notes not lost in the muddle of things (I took this opportunity to actually add important notes.)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WetWookie on February 05, 2016, 11:05:22 AM
I'd like to recommend that a review count for +10% weight toward the average ratings for each Like they have. (And maybe a disagree button for -10%?) This might help provide more accurate ratings for games with fewer reviews since it's easier for people to indicate their thoughts on a game by liking the reviews that they agree with.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: pieceofcheese87 on February 05, 2016, 05:09:49 PM
I'd like to recommend that a review count for +10% weight toward the average ratings for each Like they have. (And maybe a disagree button for -10%?) This might help provide more accurate ratings for games with fewer reviews since it's easier for people to indicate their thoughts on a game by liking the reviews that they agree with.

TJ has stressed that they will never add a dislike feature.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 06, 2016, 08:59:23 AM
I'd like to recommend that a review count for +10% weight toward the average ratings for each Like they have. (And maybe a disagree button for -10%?) This might help provide more accurate ratings for games with fewer reviews since it's easier for people to indicate their thoughts on a game by liking the reviews that they agree with.

This, unfortunately, leads to a "mob" mentality on certain games that would only further skew the rating average.

For example, let's say Cultured 2 came out tomorrow. Let's also suppose that a user didn't enjoy it much, so that user gave it a 5/10. All of a sudden that user is hit with -5 from the guys who support (or even made) the game, so now that user's review carries very little weight. Conversely, if another user gave it a 10/10, and was given +5 for supporting the game from other users/creators, then this has entirely too much positive weight to it. The 5/10 score would now barely touch the weight of the 10/10. The average between these two, at this example, would be something around 9~9.5/10, which is entirely unfair.

Del-Fruit is relying on the fact that the community will become involved and review the game. After roughly 15 reviews, we're looking at an accurate average rating for a game, based on the community. So while 1 or 2 reviews may swing wildly in one direction or the other, they are effectively reduced to null when a large majority of the reviews are giving scores in the "middle ground" of the extremes. While an 'average' isn't a great measure of opinion for only 4 reviews, it certainly has its use when there are numerous.

To sum it up, we will never add a weighting feature, or a dislike feature. The 'like' feature that is currently on the site is meant as a way to show satisfaction after reading a review - whether you agreed with it, or just thought it was funny. It has, and will always have, no effect on the way the scores are calculated. If we feel that a weight system is necessary, it will be a site-wide "hidden" weight system that would apply to every user instantly. This is not being considered at this time, however.

If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to leave them here! Del-Fruit is just about 1 year old from this date, neat!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on February 06, 2016, 09:41:58 AM
Instead of recommending systems to try and get the most "accurate" rating (whatever that means,) it's probably best to just acknowledge that there are always going to be instances of scores diverging wildly from what we each consider to be reasonable. It's everyone's prerogative to score according to their own metrics, just as everyone can discount any of those scores as being unfounded in the reality of the game. People gripe about my scores a lot for instance, but my impressions of my own games are necessarily going to be different than the people who did not go through the experience of creating them. Similarly, I try not to judge (most) scores of my games, since I never had the experience of playing them starting from a blank slate.

I think the best we (as users of the site, not designers) can do to make the scores representative of the games is giving detailed comments including the reasoning behind the scores they're attached to. Saying "this is bad" is as meaningless as "this is good" when it comes to really evaluating the quality of games.

And as always, thank you TJ, Klazen, and everyone else involved for making an excellent resource.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 06, 2016, 04:31:41 PM
Instead of recommending systems to try and get the most "accurate" rating (whatever that means,) it's probably best to just acknowledge that there are always going to be instances of scores diverging wildly from what we each consider to be reasonable. It's everyone's prerogative to score according to their own metrics, just as everyone can discount any of those scores as being unfounded in the reality of the game. People gripe about my scores a lot for instance, but my impressions of my own games are necessarily going to be different than the people who did not go through the experience of creating them. Similarly, I try not to judge (most) scores of my games, since I never had the experience of playing them starting from a blank slate.

I think the best we (as users of the site, not designers) can to do make the scores representative of the games is giving detailed comments including the reasoning behind the scores they're attached to. Saying "this is bad" is as meaningless as "this is good" when it comes to really evaluating the quality of games.

And as always, thank you TJ, Klazen, and everyone else involved for making an excellent resource.

This is great advice for everyone that uses the site. I also tend to just "ignore" bad reviews of a game that I thought were good, and imagine what the average would be if that score did not exist. This is what many users must do across all review sites, not just del-fruit. Eliminating "extreme" scores helps everyone better understand the logic behind a game's score, and well-written reviews go hand-in-hand with site growth, development, and understanding.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 07, 2016, 05:03:21 PM
Hello Del-Fruiters!

We have a very special announcement for Del-Fruit ... we're 1 year old! Woohoo!

So what does this mean? Absolutely nothing! Both Klazen and I wanted to reflect on our progress over the year from the first public release on February 8th, 2015 up until today. It has been one heck of a ride, with many adjustments and changes added to the site. Starting with just a bare-bones review site structure, we have added all sorts of goodies for our users, such as User Pages, Speedrun.com integration, Ownership Claims, and more! We couldn't of been this successful without you, community! Thanks for making Del-Fruit a major staple in the fangame community at large, and we hope to continue to promote the growth and development of fangames and its players everywhere.

Speaking of players everywhere, did you know that there's a large eastern community following on Del-Fruit? With that being said, let's jump into some statistics we've pulled from other the past year, courtesy of Google Analytics! (Note: Data is not 100% accurate, as Google Analytics was not active until mid-May of 2015 ... sorry!)

Nearly 12,000 users are from the U.S. alone! Wow! This is the highest number of users on our site, but in 2nd is a surprising Japan with nearly 5,000 users! The next 3 highest include Russia, South Korea, and Canada, all with about 2,000 users a piece. Neat!

The home page has been uniquely opened over 66,000 times! So what individual game pages have the highest unique pageviews? Take a guess!
The highest single-game unique pageview count belongs to "I wanna take the timemachine" with over 4,000 views!
Following closely is our own community's "I wanna kill the guy" also with just over 4,000 unique views! Wow!
In 3rd we have the predictable "I wanna kill the Kamilia 3" with just under 4,000 unique views. Neat!

Del-Fruit's largest day ever was on August 21st, 2015 with 7,461 page views and peaking at 604 new users 2 days later on August 23rd! Holy cannoli!

Almost 85% of our users use desktop as their go-to for browsing del-fruit! Can't download on mobile, folks!

On average, our users are looking through 6 pages per session, with an average session length of just over 5 minutes! That's longer than most porn sites! In addition to this, each unique user averages 1.5 sessions on the site - that's just about 50% of our visitors returning to the site at some point later on after their first visit! Neat!

An overwhelming majority of our users (over 32,000) use Chrome as their browsing choice, while Firefox and IE (DansGame) trail behind in 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

So where are all of our visitors coming from? It turns out that a overwhelming majority comes from Google (or another search engine) itself! Typing Delicious-Fruit sure seems to bring in the new guys! But, in case you really wanted to know what streamer is "raiding" us the most ...
Over 600 users have come from Bananasaurus_Rex's channel!
Almost 450 users have come from Cirno_TV's channel, the K2/K3 Mountain Challenge, and YoYoYoDude1's channel! Wow!
Almost 400 users have come from ParagusRants' channel and Stinkycheeseone890's! Now that's what I call fangaming!
...oh, and some reddit link fetched another 300+ users in a /r/Games post! ...unexpected, but neat!

That's all the data I can spew out for now! We hope this was a great insight into the massive growth of our site, and how important Del-Fruit has become as the go-to source for community opinions and ratings on all things fangames. We're working on new features for the near future to better include other community members (such as Japan!), so stay tuned!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen


Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 3-headed monkey on February 07, 2016, 08:10:10 PM
Congratulations Del-Fruit guys, it's a great site and I use it all the time. Thanks for all your efforts.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on February 07, 2016, 09:14:30 PM
I'm curious as to what the least-visited page is, assuming there is a single one (not including pages for games without DL links, I know I've added at least a hundred that no one knows exist on the site rn OpieOP)..
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 07, 2016, 11:46:55 PM
I'm curious as to what the least-visited page is, assuming there is a single one (not including pages for games without DL links, I know I've added at least a hundred that no one knows exist on the site rn OpieOP)..

Actually, most of the least-visited pages are private testing URLs that we use for the site, as well as admin-related URLs!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 10, 2016, 10:15:27 AM
Friendly heads up:

On February 11th, from 5:00 PM GMT to 5:00 AM GMT, Del-Fruit will be undergoing a maintenance phase to "upgrade" our webhost. During this time, you may not be able to access the site. This is intended, and should be fully up and operational by the end of the maintenance period.

With a new webhost, we can assume more direct control over any backend problems that could potentially occur on the site. More access means more problem solving, which translates to less reliance on the webhost and more reliance on our own. It also allows for more features, such as internationalization, something not possible with the old webhost.

Sorry for the inconvenience!
TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on February 10, 2016, 04:00:31 PM
Another thing I was a little curious about; is it at all possible for a spambot to sign up and post a review?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Starz0r on February 10, 2016, 06:17:44 PM
Another thing I was a little curious about; is it at all possible for a spambot to sign up and post a review?

Been trying to get Klazen to use re:Captcha 2.0 :^)

Honestly though, the possibility of it happening it really slim, there would have to be a coordinated attack, with bots programmed manually to navigate the site. So I would say No, it isn't possible.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on February 10, 2016, 07:25:36 PM
Another thing I was a little curious about; is it at all possible for a spambot to sign up and post a review?

We have not had any bot sign up (to my knowledge), let alone post any review. We see all account creations on the backend of the site.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 11, 2016, 10:01:52 AM
I think I've seen maybe one bot sign up (had a name like vuittonhandbags or something, I can't remember), but I'm pretty sure we just left it because it never posted anything. So far, I have yet to see a spam review. I believe they may be able to find the registration page if they're lucky, but since the website is completely built from scratch, there's no "how to hock your wares on delfruit" tutorial available for bot writers. So, the bots don't know how to work the site, they fail and they give up.

Bots work by crawling the web, attacking any IP they can get a response from. As soon as they figure out there's a server there, they start checking to see if there's a phpbb or smf forum installed, or a wordpress blog, or any of the other common web applications you can put on a server. They also scan for pages that look like registration pages, maybe like "/register.php". The goal for the bot owners isn't to break into every site out there, but rather to find as many vulnerable sites as possible - it's a bit like throwing spaghetti at the wall, and waiting to see if any sticks.

This isn't unique to webpages either - on the new server I'm moving delfruit to, I see tens of malicious login attempts over SSH (the server admin interface) on the server every hour. Bots, just scanning the internet for any server that will answer them, and then spamming common passwords hoping one of the thousands of servers they're scanning will open up for them. However I stopped using passwords and switched to a cryptographic key, and auto ban any machine that tries to log in to the default admin account instantly, or that fails 3 times to log into a standard admin account. It's a bit like watching moths fly into a bug zapper - pretty amusing!

Anyway, I got sidetracked on a rant, but the point of my post is that delfruit is pretty safe against bots simply because it doesn't fit the website pattern the bots expect. But that doesn't mean it's safe forever - it's only safe because the bot writers don't consider it a high enough profile target to write a custom bot for!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on February 11, 2016, 11:30:12 AM
The joke's on all of you. I've been using a bot to write my reviews all along!

Also, I don't know if this is related to the maintenance somehow but the Bingo link is broken.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on February 11, 2016, 05:07:57 PM
Also, I don't know if this is related to the maintenance somehow but the Bingo link is broken.

Sorry, forgot to migrate the bingo part over in all the commotion. Everything should be done now, if you encounter any more issues of course you know where to send your complaints! If you don't see the new site yet please be patient, it may take some time for your ISP to realize the site moved.

With the new site, we finally have automatic wiki pulling again, so your games should make it to delfruit within 8 hours of the wiki updating!

Also, I've added a "Games" tab to your profile, so you can see the games for which you've been registered as owner. It works for others too, check someone's profile to see the games they made!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on February 29, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
This is more of a musing than a serious suggestion for practical changes, but I wonder if the site would be better off in terms of quality input if there weren't the simply rating/difficulty sliders there are now. Either in terms of having more specific but still numeric ratings (one for graphics, one for platforming, etc etc,) or just not having any quantifiable results at all. There are still downsides to both obviously, but it's just always a little weird to open up the website and see that someone made 30 reviews in about 2 seconds each because they consider those two sliders the only important things.

I guess this is really just still in the same vein as everything else that irks me, which is particular people clearly don't put a whole lot of thought into their reviews.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on March 02, 2016, 10:27:53 AM
This is more of a musing than a serious suggestion for practical changes, but I wonder if the site would be better off in terms of quality input if there weren't the simply rating/difficulty sliders there are now. Either in terms of having more specific but still numeric ratings (one for graphics, one for platforming, etc etc,) or just not having any quantifiable results at all. There are still downsides to both obviously, but it's just always a little weird to open up the website and see that someone made 30 reviews in about 2 seconds each because they consider those two sliders the only important things.

I guess this is really just still in the same vein as everything else that irks me, which is particular people clearly don't put a whole lot of thought into their reviews.

Just so I'm clear on this suggestion - you are saying that the difficulty and rating bars are too general, such that it does not give a good insight into the game's actual difficulty or perceived rating? There would have to be a "sub" rating under the two bars that are given at the moment to help "justify" your rating, but I believe that's what the comment box is for. If we add more scales, does it get more confusing? If we add sub-bars to the existing ones, should the sub-bars weight what rating you give it?

The most important question, however, is this: What is valued so much that it warrants its own slider? To you, it might be the platforming, the storyline or progression of the game, or maybe just the visuals. To someone else, it might be how many bugs the game had, how long the game was, or how much fun they had overall. This will drastically vary from person to person, and I really do not see a "general" bar to rate on besides that is already listed on the site. The 'rating' of the game is just ambiguous enough to have your own interpretation. The 'difficulty' rating is a little more straightforward, but those also vary quite a bit, dependent upon what you are looking for.

As stated, I believe the comment box below your rating is the best place to explain why you rated a game X/10. Did you primarily judge the platforming? The music? Visuals? Or maybe you do not want to explain why you rated a game X/10, and would rather just give it your rating and move on. To some people, those two bars are the only thing that matters, which will not change if we add more bars, or sub-bars. It all boils down to preference, something that we have tried to keep open on Del-Fruit.

I will keep this suggestion in mind, but at the moment, I am leaning more towards the "keep the current system" side of the discussion unless a better case is presented.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on March 02, 2016, 12:18:33 PM
I just want to clarify that it was not a serious suggestion with the intent to make a case for change, just idle speculation on a theoretical solution to the phenomenon of people submitting a ten or twenty essentially meaningless reviews at a time. That is to say, I'm almost entirely certain that any change intended to try and wring better reviews out of people would fail in practice, but could be interesting in theory. After reading your post, I would agree that having multiple sliders would end up being an equally pointless endeavor, as they would either be too vague to be useful, or too specific to have only a few of them. One possible upside would be ease of use for any possible venture into a multilingual site (since it's easier to translate the names of sliders than entire reviews,) but I doubt that outweighs the negatives right now.

In general, I would also prefer it if people just used the text box for its intended purpose, but it seems pretty clear that some people have no interest in doing so.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on March 03, 2016, 09:48:16 AM
I just want to clarify that it was not a serious suggestion with the intent to make a case for change, just idle speculation on a theoretical solution to the phenomenon of people submitting a ten or twenty essentially meaningless reviews at a time. That is to say, I'm almost entirely certain that any change intended to try and wring better reviews out of people would fail in practice, but could be interesting in theory. After reading your post, I would agree that having multiple sliders would end up being an equally pointless endeavor, as they would either be too vague to be useful, or too specific to have only a few of them. One possible upside would be ease of use for any possible venture into a multilingual site (since it's easier to translate the names of sliders than entire reviews,) but I doubt that outweighs the negatives right now.

In general, I would also prefer it if people just used the text box for its intended purpose, but it seems pretty clear that some people have no interest in doing so.

It is certainly a neat idea and would work wonderfully in theory, but I fear the large majority would not use it properly, or at all for that matter. The multilingual point you bring up is interesting, I had not considered the effects of a change like that on non-English readers. I think it would ease a translation of rating between languages, so this is definitely an upside to a change like that.

All in all, it is certainly something to consider if there is ever a demand for a change like that. We will keep it in the back of our minds for now! Of course, we encourage everyone to "think out loud" about changes to Del-Fruit so we can discuss the possibility of such changes. There are no stupid questions or wrong answers here! ...unless you keep asking us to make a game un-private what the hell guys

Edit: Yes, I wish people would use the text box for its intended purpose, too :(
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 01, 2016, 10:46:13 AM
Hello Del-Fruiters!

We have very exciting news for this month's featured Wannabe! Can you guess who it is?

This month's featured streamer is ... the ever-famous Kamilia!

Kamilia's desire to produce quality content for the wiki has vastly outdone the Western community's attempts at making anything nearly half as good. Kamilia is known for being involved in the production of the most popular, most liked, and most fun game series known as "Kill the Kamilia" ... 1, 2, and 3! Arguably the best fangame player to ever grace I wanna be the guy games, this multi-talented individual has earned himself a spot on the Wannabe of the Month. In fact, to honor such a tremendous achievement for an incredible player and producer, the following 12 months of this award will go to Kamilia without any contest, effective immediately. You can find him over at www.twitch.tv/kamilia_twitch, so give him some love!

Congratulations, Kamilia!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kyir on April 01, 2016, 11:44:47 AM
And now we wait till tomorrow to see if this is an april fools prank or not?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 3-headed monkey on April 01, 2016, 04:10:47 PM
And now we wait till tomorrow to see if this is an april fools prank or not?

no, warned
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Swordslinger on April 01, 2016, 04:15:43 PM
And now we wait till tomorrow to see if this is an april fools prank or not?

it seems unlikely, everyone knows you shouldn't take the piss out of anyone in the Asian communities, you might bruise their sensitive souls and they might make all their games private.

Was that racism really necessary?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: 3-headed monkey on April 01, 2016, 04:26:36 PM
Was that racism really necessary?
[/quote]

certainly not racism but an unfair generalisation born of frustration, my apologies
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 02, 2016, 11:30:06 AM
We hope you all enjoyed Del-Fruit's April Fools joke!

Introducing the real Wannabe of the Month... Wolsk!

A great variety streamer on The Wannabes, Wolsk's stream is the spice of life. With silly Steam games galore, Wolsk's entertaining chat and stream will keep you hooked for hours (he even has scheduled days like Throwback Thursday and Wiki Roulette Friday). On top of that, his fangame skill is sure to impress - all while making sure you are sedated with CatBags and hand-drawn FrankerFaceZ. In fact, you've probably already seen some of his emotes, such as the infamous WolskSellout ... you really should follow him.

Congratulations, Wolsk!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Wolsk on April 02, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Wow!
Wow!
Wow!
Chat disabled for 2 seconds.
Wow!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Hop on April 12, 2016, 07:54:38 PM
It would be cool if you could see the amount of clears on a game like you can see how many people have favorited it.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: HAEGOE on April 16, 2016, 08:19:05 AM
May I ask how to 'prove' I'm a creator?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on April 16, 2016, 10:38:27 AM
May I ask how to 'prove' I'm a creator?

Request Ownership of a game on Del-Fruit by clicking 'report game or suggest edit', and then ask us to add you as the creator for that game. A picture of the game files or something similar would be sufficient, plus (I think) all of us are in agreement of what games you have made, so there should be no issues there!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WetWookie on April 18, 2016, 02:19:17 PM
In places where you have lists of games (the new games on the front page, full list of games, anywhere else) where you have Game Name, Difficulty, Rating would it be possible to add a column for Number of Ratings?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on April 22, 2016, 07:32:21 PM
Added rating count to all the tables I could think of, and a release date column to the front page as well. The release date is actually the delfruit add date, so it may be off by a little, but it's the best I can offer. Also we don't have the dates for games released before delfruit went live, so you won't be seeing that on the full list just yet. I'm going to be updating the database with the release dates for as many games as I can find, so maybe soon™
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: WetWookie on April 23, 2016, 03:28:46 PM
Awesome  :PogChamp:
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on May 01, 2016, 06:01:02 PM
I'd like to suggest just removing the averaging of difficulties in the site; there are a lot of flaws with the way it works.


Difficulty is one of those things that's both subjective and objective; a game's difficulty is obviously there, but the degree to what it is for any one person varies.


Take I wanna be the INT, for example; one person recently gave it a 94 because of the amount of short-hops it requires, yet people like me who are fairly consistent and 1-framing or jump-cancelling would give it somewhere around a 30. I understand we are kind of supposed to give a difficulty rating for average/new players, but it's also difficult to judge that correctly for everyone.


If I were to go in and rate a game a 30 and another person rates that same game a 70 because of the techniques it requires, the average would end out being 50, and the average player I don't think would rate a game with say 1-frames or cancels a 50.


Another problem is that a lot of people seem to get the two bars confused, most likely due to language barriers, and a lot of these games become weighted with this accidental confusion, which is my main argument for removing the system as a whole and just have people say how hard they thought it was in their actual review.


I also understand that with more people rating for it, the average will kind of even out, but with the amount of fangames being produced per day and the amount of reviews created for a game per day, it would take forever to get to that point unless suddenly everyone began reviewing every game spontaneously (and the chances for that are obviously incredibly low).


I'm not completely opposed to there being a difficulty rating system at all; I like seeing how hard or easy a game was for people. However, I'd like for difficulty ratings to only stick with their respective reviews.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on May 01, 2016, 11:28:12 PM
I'd like to suggest just removing the averaging of difficulties in the site; there are a lot of flaws with the way it works.


Difficulty is one of those things that's both subjective and objective; a game's difficulty is obviously there, but the degree to what it is for any one person varies.


Take I wanna be the INT, for example; one person recently gave it a 94 because of the amount of short-hops it requires, yet people like me who are fairly consistent and 1-framing or jump-cancelling would give it somewhere around a 30. I understand we are kind of supposed to give a difficulty rating for average/new players, but it's also difficult to judge that correctly for everyone.


If I were to go in and rate a game a 30 and another person rates that same game a 70 because of the techniques it requires, the average would end out being 50, and the average player I don't think would rate a game with say 1-frames or cancels a 50.


Another problem is that a lot of people seem to get the two bars confused, most likely due to language barriers, and a lot of these games become weighted with this accidental confusion, which is my main argument for removing the system as a whole and just have people say how hard they thought it was in their actual review.


I also understand that with more people rating for it, the average will kind of even out, but with the amount of fangames being produced per day and the amount of reviews created for a game per day, it would take forever to get to that point unless suddenly everyone began reviewing every game spontaneously (and the chances for that are obviously incredibly low).


I'm not completely opposed to there being a difficulty rating system at all; I like seeing how hard or easy a game was for people. However, I'd like for difficulty ratings to only stick with their respective reviews.

I just want to address this point-by-point:

First off, thanks for your suggestion. We're always looking for changes in the site, but I never expected the difficulty rating to be a hot spot.

Regarding the subjectivity and objectivity of difficulty: it is a review site, so there will be both. This not only applies to difficulty - it applies to the rating of the game as well, and is sometimes talked about in the reviewer's comment section. In essence, difficulty follows the same logic as the rating in every way.

Although I have never played INT and can't speak about its difficulty, it sounds as if the game requires a lot of short hopping, 1 or 2 framing, etc. For some players, this is monstrously hard. For others, such as yourself and other needle game players, it typically isn't a challenge. Your example of the 30 + 70 equaling out to 50 is a good point, but remember that typically any rating will not be a "true" indicator of what the community thinks until we reach many more reviews.

Of course, not every game will receive the same attention as a game like Kamilia 3 or NANG. Certain games will only contain 3 or less reviews, which is unfortunate but expected due to the size of the fangame directory. If a group of 5 needle game players comes in and rates it a 30 difficulty while 1 new player rates it a 70, the difficulty is suddenly a 37 -- much more reasonable and a better indicator of what the general community thinks. Removing a difficulty review here is the same logic as removing the ratings of each review, in which we rely on the average. Yes, it isn't fair for some games to not have as many reviews, but every review helps! We encourage everyone who uses the site to review games they have completed to the fullest extent, so we receive better indicators for both difficulty and rating.

Regarding the "mixing up" of bars - I have never heard of this and didn't know this was a problem. I am more than open to suggestions on how to make the difficulty visually different than the rating of the game. I know English isn't the first language of many users who visit the site, but even from non-English readers I have never heard this complaint.

As always, never take the stated rating/difficulty as the "true value" for the game. There will always be biases in reviews, regardless of what we do. This, in essence, is the beauty of a review site! Use your own judgment for reviews, ratings, and difficulties on games that may not have as many as those with 15+.

It was fun to think about the idea of how difficulty works with reviews through this suggestion, so thanks! Like I stated above, if you have any ideas on how we could visually differentiate the difficulty and rating as to make it more clear to non-English readers, that'd be great.

-TJ
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on May 02, 2016, 07:45:10 AM
http://imgur.com/NZTgPMD

For the mixing up of bars, I was referring to instances like the above; I could only have so much hope in humanity and inferred that the reviewer had gotten the two bars confused, as there was no other way this could have made sense to me.

As for ways of better distinguishing them, I honestly have no idea at the moment other than making the site available in other languages, which I know has been discussed before.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on May 02, 2016, 10:43:18 AM
http://imgur.com/NZTgPMD

For the mixing up of bars, I was referring to instances like the above; I could only have so much hope in humanity and inferred that the reviewer had gotten the two bars confused, as there was no other way this could have made sense to me.

As for ways of better distinguishing them, I honestly have no idea at the moment other than making the site available in other languages, which I know has been discussed before.

Haha, I see your point with the bars being mixed up! We are still trying to get the site in more than just English, so supporting other languages will certainly help any confusion. Of course, if anyone else has any visual ideas in addition to language inclusion, I am more than open to any ideas!

In fact, if you know anyone that is willing to provide support on the site for more languages, please let us know! We talked to a lot of people that unfortunately were not interested in helping translate the site. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: L4Vo5 on May 02, 2016, 11:13:15 AM
People like me would give it somewhere around a 30.
And the average player I don't think would rate a game with say 1-frames or cancels a 50.
You should really try to rate based on what the average player would expect. I'd also like to point out that most games are really above 60-70 (for the average player), and i think it should somehow change (i don't have any ideas other than letting us rate up to 200 or something). But giving hard games a 30 because you found it easy might cause new players to think that the game is truly 30, and it might scare them off because if THAT'S how hard a 30 is, imagine a 60.
Basically what i'm saying is: if a game requires a technique that took you hours to learn, try including those hours in the difficulty rating (but don't make it only depend on that)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Artardss on May 02, 2016, 11:42:00 AM
In fact, if you know anyone that is willing to provide support on the site for more languages, please let us know! We talked to a lot of people that unfortunately were not interested in helping translate the site. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Could you explain a bit what translating the site entails? Are you only looking for certain languages or is anything fine? What exactly needs translating (for example: news articles everytime they come out as well?)?
Also how do you do the translations; do you get a textfile with the stuff you need to translate or do you have something different in mind?

Maybe some people are more willing to help if they know what to expect.

Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Arclooper on May 02, 2016, 11:58:14 AM
Maybe putting the symbols for rating and difficulty by the side of the text when making the review would help a little, other than just getting translations for the site.

And despite the occasional mix-ups and averaging issues, the ratings still do more good than harm. Also I'm pretty sure you realize your example with INT was a tad exaggerated, you know a game that requires constant short hopping shouldn't get a 30 :p
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: infern0man1 on May 02, 2016, 03:49:37 PM
That is a good idea, L4, hadn't really thought about including how much time it took to master those techniques. In that case INT would end out being a 70 or so for me (and it would be higher if I had a different keyboard; mine is really good for shorthops).

I also said 30 only because I recently rebeat the game in about 225 deaths; it really isn't hard for me to do nowadays.


I'm not sure how far you all are into the translation process, but I'd be willing to help out for Spanish if need be.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on May 03, 2016, 12:03:10 AM
In fact, if you know anyone that is willing to provide support on the site for more languages, please let us know! We talked to a lot of people that unfortunately were not interested in helping translate the site. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Could you explain a bit what translating the site entails? Are you only looking for certain languages or is anything fine? What exactly needs translating (for example: news articles everytime they come out as well?)?
Also how do you do the translations; do you get a textfile with the stuff you need to translate or do you have something different in mind?

Maybe some people are more willing to help if they know what to expect.

I'd have to ask Klazen exactly how he was planning on doing this, I'll try to get more info regarding translations in this thread soon! Thanks for showing some support for this, though! (Same to inferno!)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: JGBMaster on May 04, 2016, 03:30:27 AM
I'd be willing to help out for Spanish if need be.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: klazen108 on May 10, 2016, 06:25:48 PM
The translation process is pretty simple. All you have to do is download a program called poedit, and then open up a file I send and add in the translations for each item. Here's a screenshot showing Korean translations in progress:
(http://klazen.com/up/T20160510T211107.png)

Things like news items and user reviews won't be translated, just the static text around the website, so it's a one-and-done deal. If you're interested, just get in contact with me and I can send you the file you need and help you get set up.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: kurath on October 03, 2016, 12:11:26 AM
Didn't see this come up in the thread (hope I didn't miss it and rehash an old idea) but I think I'd like to see the ability to reference 'similar games' in a review. I think there's no doubt that people have specific tastes when it comes to fangames, and while the tags do help it doesn't necessarily cover it all. It'd be a great addition for people to be able to see - once they finish a game and (hopefully) review it, to be able to see what others referenced as similar in case they liked it. Perhaps to add a little more, a short description could be added as to why its similar.

Eg. Sheep 100 is like QoQoQo as they're similar difficulty 100 floor games with single save floors and convoluted level design.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: patrickgh3 on November 09, 2016, 01:42:47 PM
Just now today Starz0r asked the IWC discord what Delfruit features they'd like to see. I compiled a list for convenience! I also want to reiterate on behalf of everyone, thank you Klazen and TJ for making and dealing with Delfruit. Hear our humble suggestions o wise ones.

Starz0r: What would features would @everyone want to see on Delicious Fruit?

Forum integration: Delfruit and forum profiles would be linked.

Recommendations system: Each fangame page would suggest fangames of similar tags, difficulty, and possibly rating.

Curated lists: 10 users with most reviews have their reviews list sorted by rating publicly facing somehow as a recommended list.

Badges: To incentivize reviewing. Many other ideas like streaks (1 review a week), participating in community events (spook jam). Seriously I think this would make many people actually contribute to the site.

Fangame of the day: On the homepage, show a fangame (name, 1 screenshot, clickable) that's automatically randomly picked every 24hrs with possibly a 7+ rating threshold.
Can show people fangames they would like but never seen before if they catch their eye.

Follow authors: Make a list of author names and you get notified somehow whenever one releases a new game.

New reviews on my game: Somehow see only reviews on your games (any games?) that you haven't read before.

Donate button

Sort by date added: Sort games somehow by date added (more fine tuned than date range in advanced search).

Negate tags: Advanced search for games WITHOUT certain tags.

Search by number of ratings as an official parameter in advanced search.

Viewing your own bookmarks list shows average ratings/difficulty instead of your own, since you likely haven't played them yet. Maybe show both?
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Kanaris on November 09, 2016, 02:20:07 PM
Hi! I have some changes to DelFruit I think would be awesome to see if possible.

Appearance:
-Optional delfruit dark theme (mm)
-A user's bookmarks list should show their score ratings/difficulty ratings as well as the average score ratings/difficulty ratings, as most use bookmarks for games they haven't played, and hence, haven't rated.
-Show when the user bookmarked a game.
-Show when the user cleared a game.

Site structure:
-Authors and users linked together. If you click on an author's name on their game's page, it should take you to their profile like it does when you click on anyone else's name.

Advanced Search:
-Search by number of ratings
-Ability to exclude tags/strings

Search Results:
-Sort by date
-Sort by author
-Ability to add games to bookmarks directly from the search results page (pleaseeeeeeee)

Thank you Klazen, TJ and Pat for the awesome site! <3
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on November 09, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
Hey guys,

Thanks for compiling all of these into one post Pat & Kanaris ... Klazen is super busy getting situated with new life stuff at the moment, but I will relay all of these to him when he's available!

Together, we will Make Del-Fruit Great Again!
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: BaronBlade on November 14, 2016, 12:24:07 PM
I'd like to add a suggestion for an improved advanced search: the ability to search specifically for unrated fangames. I feel like this would motivate people to play said games and leave more reviews, thus leading to a more comprehensive site.
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on November 27, 2016, 08:18:03 PM
Good evening Del-Fruiters!

We have another update for the site that we believe will only help the site grow even more: foreign language support!

This was suggested quite a long time ago, and Klazen heard you! As of now, we are rolling out Portuguese as the language other than English on the site, with more languages (hopefully) on the way (such as Korean)! You can find the language switcher on the top-right part of the site.

Please note that the language change does not affect the following:
Usernames
Game names or links
Del-Fruit Announcements
Any of the buttons at the top
Reviews

...everything else will be translated! We hope you enjoy this feature.

Also, if you want a new language supported on the site and you happen to be fluent in that language - contact me or Klazen, and we'll hook you up! A BIG thank you to Nader who helped us with the first translation!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Raoul on November 28, 2016, 02:00:48 AM
Good evening Del-Fruiters!

We have another update for the site that we believe will only help the site grow even more: foreign language support!

This was suggested quite a long time ago, and Klazen heard you! As of now, we are rolling out Portuguese as the language other than English on the site, with more languages (hopefully) on the way (such as Korean)! You can find the language switcher on the top-right part of the site.

Please note that the language change does not affect the following:
Usernames
Game names or links
Del-Fruit Announcements
Any of the buttons at the top
Reviews

...everything else will be translated! We hope you enjoy this feature.

Also, if you want a new language supported on the site and you happen to be fluent in that language - contact me or Klazen, and we'll hook you up! A BIG thank you to Nader who helped us with the first translation!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen


I can do korean, so if you want to contact me about it, feel free to do so :)
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on November 28, 2016, 08:46:52 PM
Good evening Del-Fruiters!

We have another update for the site that we believe will only help the site grow even more: foreign language support!

This was suggested quite a long time ago, and Klazen heard you! As of now, we are rolling out Portuguese as the language other than English on the site, with more languages (hopefully) on the way (such as Korean)! You can find the language switcher on the top-right part of the site.

Please note that the language change does not affect the following:
Usernames
Game names or links
Del-Fruit Announcements
Any of the buttons at the top
Reviews

...everything else will be translated! We hope you enjoy this feature.

Also, if you want a new language supported on the site and you happen to be fluent in that language - contact me or Klazen, and we'll hook you up! A BIG thank you to Nader who helped us with the first translation!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen


I can do korean, so if you want to contact me about it, feel free to do so :)

Hey Raoul,

We're very much interested - we would love to get in contact via Discord. Are you a part of the Iwanna community discord? I could find you and PM you that way.

Thanks,
TJ
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: Raoul on November 29, 2016, 12:09:10 AM
Good evening Del-Fruiters!

We have another update for the site that we believe will only help the site grow even more: foreign language support!

This was suggested quite a long time ago, and Klazen heard you! As of now, we are rolling out Portuguese as the language other than English on the site, with more languages (hopefully) on the way (such as Korean)! You can find the language switcher on the top-right part of the site.

Please note that the language change does not affect the following:
Usernames
Game names or links
Del-Fruit Announcements
Any of the buttons at the top
Reviews

...everything else will be translated! We hope you enjoy this feature.

Also, if you want a new language supported on the site and you happen to be fluent in that language - contact me or Klazen, and we'll hook you up! A BIG thank you to Nader who helped us with the first translation!

Thanks,
TJ&Klazen


I can do korean, so if you want to contact me about it, feel free to do so :)

Hey Raoul,

We're very much interested - we would love to get in contact via Discord. Are you a part of the Iwanna community discord? I could find you and PM you that way.

Thanks,
TJ


Currently I am not in any group of discord, since I signed in only a few weeks ago.

My account number(?) is < Shinobu #7315 >
Title: Re: Introducing Delicious-Fruit.com!
Post by: tehjman1993 on December 05, 2016, 12:01:30 AM
Just an update to our new language support -- thanks to Erik, we now support German! Woohoo!